What would be proof that God exists?

[Nicomachus]

Minor sidebar here. Though your sentiment is nice to see, why is it (my perception) that women tend to be more religious than men, at least in Christianity? Do you think the same as your female friends - is it just your scientific mindset that makes you different (if that's your perception)?

For the record, I'm a Christian despite the clear and obvious flaws in the Bible. I should start my own sect (cult?)...

You know, and this is my observation, I tend to think this is a myth. I would say women on the whole are not as religious as men, in actuality, but play that role in public. Men tend to be far more dogmatic, from my experience anyway and I have much experience in this matter. Oh and russ, Greek isn't a dead language =).
*Nico

 

[Nicomachus]

Alpa = (C squared) / radius (r) = Angular velocity of the speed of light
Omega = C / r = frequency R represents lambda

1/omega = time

There is nothing dead about God..

But the light of God you do not walk in..

I have not found any flaws in my Bible but many flaws in mans interpretation of the Bible.

My God is the light of this world, Jesus told you plainly "I am the light" or did you not understand what He was saying.

He also told you only the "Son knows the Father and whom the Son is willing to reveal Him"

One day in the future you will know that even though you think you do not need God, He will still be there for you.

Pi = the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Blah blah blah. What is your point? Oh you are making a neat allusion to your twisted interpretation of the Bible to fit some model you have created using the "Alpha and Omega" phrase. This reminds me of the legendary, but untrue, story of Euler's mathematical proof of God to Diderot; you's is even more ridiculous than the one attributed to Euler. You don't even have a premise and yet you have come to a conclusion based on these statements ... I have seen first year logic students do better than this.

On the whole you are being a sophist. You have twisted and wielded Revelations 1.8 to fit this model, your interpretation. Have you forgotten 2 Peter 1.20 ? Please don't tell me this is the best you've got.
*Nico

 

[DavidSF]

Dear Nick,
I almost feel sorry for you, Your lack of insight is your weakness. many things come as parrables to you, I am not a poet, but the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven will never be yours unless you cease to be judge and jury, this you were told and you never listened then, or either you have a very bad memory.

I will not toil with argument for the sake of argument, for this seems to be your delight. Your mind is closed. You do not seem to comprehend the beauty of the knowledge of life, of light, of God.. maybe you are still young and need to mature, I do not know, but God knows.

The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand..

Only you stop yourself from understanding.
Read the parrables, it will help you see yourself.

David

 

[Nicomachus]

Dear Nick,
I almost feel sorry for you, Your lack of insight is your weakness. many things come as parrables to you, I am not a poet, but the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven will never be yours unless you cease to be judge and jury, this you were told and you never listened then, or either you have a very bad memory.

I will not toil with argument for the sake of argument, for this seems to be your delight. Your mind is closed. You do not seem to comprehend the beauty of the knowledge of life, of light, of God.. maybe you are still young and need to mature, I do not know, but God knows.

The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand..

Only you stop yourself from understanding.
Read the parrables, it will help you see yourself.

David

My name is Nicomachus and don't feel sorry for me, that is just another projection of yours and example of your own delusions of grandeur.

"many things come as parrables to you, I am not a poet, but the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven will never be yours unless you cease to be judge and jury, this you were told and you never listened then, or either you have a very bad memory."

Your ad hominem with respect to my memory is duly unnecessary. Don't be so presumptuous and self-righteous as to think because I know you are providing no arguments that I am some how mentally diminished. Why do you continue this Circulus in Demonstrando? Honestly, I don't care if you are a poet or a garbage-collector, you cannot prove the existence of "the Kingdom of Heaven" by asserting "the Kingdom of Heaven exists." You explicitly suggesting that I must relinguish all rational thought in order to accept your nonsense, such is immoral.

"I will not toil with argument for the sake of argument, for this seems to be your delight. Your mind is closed. You do not seem to comprehend the beauty of the knowledge of life, of light, of God.. maybe you are still young and need to mature, I do not know, but God knows."

No, you just have no intellectual honesty. You make these naked assertions and then cry foul when I criticize them. You were the one bemoaning the lack of intellectual discussion and crowing of your knowledge of intellectual matters but yet you refuse to engage in intellectual discourse. My mind is not closed, I am simply rational, unlike this ad hominem and irrelavent display you have made. It is not fruitful to assert that because I do not accept your position because I am young, which is further presumpuous, or that I am somehow mentally diminished. When you assert this business of "You do not seem to comprehend the beauty of knowledge..." all you are doing is presenting vacuous statements. You attempt to make an emotional plea but that will not work in discourse.

" The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand.."

Simply because you have changed the gender of the pronoun you use does not mean I will accept your unjustified positions. Again, this is preaching session, stop proselytizing and be the intellectual you were purporting yourself to be.

"Only you stop yourself from understanding.
Read the parrables, it will help you see yourself."

Blah blah blah. The word is "parables." I have read the Bible and I would claim I am more versed in it than you, I have certainly demonstrated that I have greater understanding of it than you. You did not respond; how do you justify your defiance of 2 Peter 1.20. I think I may speak for everyone when I say that no one cares for your preaching. You entered this thread purporting evidence and arguments, thus far you have presented nothing but naked assertions, fallacies, red herrings, bad poetry, and ad hominems in way of insinuating diminished mental capacity of those who do not fall for your sophistry.
*Nico

 

[DavidSF]

2 Peter 1:20 (knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation),

Why do ask me about this scripture, I do not interpret the scripture but read what is written there in very very plain English, If you do not believe what is written then that is your problem..
I do not understand your anger toward me, is this because I understand a little about time, because Jesus warned me when he said "When your time comes, remember they hated me first"..
All I have received from you is aggressive anger statements, and a stuck record which keeps saying "Red herring Red herring Red herring", maybe I am a fisherman?


Go to page 5 and re-read what I have said previously, maybe you will learn something more.. You judge what yourself you do not understand,

Revelation 23
9. Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.''
10. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

As I said before The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand..

Here is some proverbs from Proverbs 4

6. Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; love her, and she will keep you.
7. Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding.
8. Exalt her, and she will promote you; she will bring you honor, when you embrace her.
9. She will place on your head an ornament of grace; a crown of glory she will deliver to you.''

She is the knowledge of God..

 

[DavidSF]

Proverbs 2
4. If you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hidden treasures;
5. then you will understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.

What more can I say

 

[Nicomachus]

2 Peter 1:20 (knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation),

Why do ask me about this scripture, I do not interpret the scripture but read what is written there in very very plain English, If you do not believe what is written then that is your problem..
I do not understand your anger toward me, is this because I understand a little about time, because Jesus warned me when he said "When your time comes, remember they hated me first"..
All I have received from you is aggressive anger statements, and a stuck record which keeps saying "Red herring Red herring Red herring", maybe I am a fisherman?


Go to page 5 and re-read what I have said previously, maybe you will learn something more.. You judge what yourself you do not understand,

Revelation 23
9. Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.''
10. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

As I said before The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand..

Here is some proverbs from Proverbs 4

6. Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; love her, and she will keep you.
7. Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding.
8. Exalt her, and she will promote you; she will bring you honor, when you embrace her.
9. She will place on your head an ornament of grace; a crown of glory she will deliver to you.''

She is the knowledge of God..

"2 Peter 1:20 (knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation),

Why do ask me about this scripture, I do not interpret the scripture but read what is written there in very very plain English, If you do not believe what is written then that is your problem.."

Because you are twisting verses to fit your, albeit pointless, model. I realize that you are reading the verses but you are also intrepreting it at will.

"I do not understand your anger toward me, is this because I understand a little about time, because Jesus warned me when he said "When your time comes, remember they hated me first".."

I don't have anger toward you; you are just passive aggressively asserting your unjustified position, though mostly vague and vacuous, as some absolute that only an idiot would not accept. Your position and arguments have no merit.

"All I have received from you is aggressive anger statements, and a stuck record which keeps saying "Red herring Red herring Red herring", maybe I am a fisherman?"

Well possibly if you were educated you would realize why I keep calling you on red-herrings. That has been your tactic all along and the more you continue this strategy the more I will point it out.

I read your magical page 5 and it contained nothing but naked assertions, unjustified conclusions, and circulus in demonstrando, among other things. You seem to suggest that a proper deductive argument takes whatever you want to be true and makes it true.

"You judge what yourself you do not understand,

Revelation 23
9. Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.''
10. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,"

Do not be so presumptuous as to assume what I do not understand. I understand your religion and its text very well. It is you who are demonstrating and unashamed ignonrance of it. Have you no intellectual honesty, sir? This verse you have presented is simply part and parcel of your "I cannot defend criticism but I can preach as if I am a broken record" formula.

"As I said before The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand.."

Circulus in ... Do I really have to write it out again? Let me ask you this: Do you know what it means to assume your conclusions and if so do you realize the problem with that? This is very basic elementary stuff for me, why are you having such a hard time with it? Bring something more challenging you are just sounding like any run of the mill dogmatic theist.
*Nico

 

[Nicomachus]

Proverbs 2
4. If you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hidden treasures;
5. then you will understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.

What more can I say

I don't know. You haven't begun to say anything.
*Nico

-- Also, if you would like I will make a rigorous examination of your "page 5" statements and show them to be what I said previously and will demonstrate how you are blatantly defying 2 Peter 1.20, which is to say nothing of the lack of merit of your crackpot interpretations.

 

[DavidSF]

Mathew 10
25. "It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household!
26. "Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.


The knowledge of God is for those who love God and genuinely seek it, You do not know God nor his form.

For this reason you do not understand me. If you loved God you would seek his knowledge and I would know you, and you would know me.

But I do not know you, and because you do not know me you will remain
un-enlightened so to speak.

I will leave you with the following thoughts for the day.

Mathew 7
5. "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.
6. "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
7. "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
8. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

God Bless you all
Hopefully somebody heard the truth about God

Dear janitor,
the scripture is built on a process called witnessing, this you experienced and you will take on board the information I gave you.
For this reason you now know where to look, and it will profit you.
David.

 

[olde drunk]

first off, how does any of this nonsense prove the existence of god?? and, who said god created the earth, heaven and hell??

i would prefer to accept the thesis that there ain't no heaven or hell and that the Earth is an energy projection available to us as a playground to hone our skills for manipulating our energy.

i submit, picture your most blessed image of heaven; now, how long before you are bored?? hell fails the same logic test. what purpose would it serve (for anyone or any god) to have a 'soul' spend eternity in a hell.

within creation we go to many, many worlds to expand our consciousness and that of the universe. these are playgrounds where we play games, respectfully. i hate to say it, but as a fallen (very faithful) christian, i have found that most continue to believe because they either do not want to think for themselves or they have bought the idea that they will be punished if they do.

i assure you, being a heretic is very safe! i have been one for neigh on 35 years and my life has the same twists and turns as believers. i do like, however, the insight gained by seeing how i made things happen and my evolution into a loving, peaceful being.

i have said it before, the bible has been corrupted by well intentioned translators and interpreters. a nice historical book that can not be trusted as a handbook for life.

you can have my pearls of wisdom because i do not consider ANY of creation to be 'swine'. trust me, there are no greater or lesser souls in the universe; only explorers. honestly, i prefer to be a happy go lucky seeker of experience.

let the games begin! we don't need no stinkin religion!

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[BoulderHead]

Hello DavidSF,
Here is what I’m seeing from reading your posts;

Your mind is not not focused on the kingdom of the heavens, because of this you cannot understand where I come from.

Translation; you do not believe as I believe, therefore you do not believe as I believe.

One day in the future you will know that even though you think you do not need God, He will still be there for you.

Needing God is emotional, whereas having conclusive proof of the existence of God is not. Don’t confuse the two. We all have emotional needs, so if you want to be cerebral about the matter it would be wise to have an appreciation for the difference.

I have not found any flaws in my Bible but many flaws in mans interpretation of the Bible.

How many flaws have you found in your own interpretation of the Bible?

I almost feel sorry for you, Your lack of insight is your weakness.

I have long contended that Xians cannot be so forgiving as atheists. After all, it is required to hold nonbelievers merit the eternal damnation a loving God has planned for them. As an atheist I can honestly extend to you my full sympathy, without reservation or caveat.

Only you stop yourself from understanding.

Translation; you too can believe what I believe if only you desire it deeply enough.

As I said before The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand.

Translation; you too can believe what I believe if only you desire it deeply enough.

The knowledge of God is for those who love God and genuinely seek it, You do not know God nor his form.

Translation; you too can believe what I believe if only you desire it deeply enough.
Additionally, the failing is all your own doing (hence my inability to truly be a forgiving human being).

For this reason you do not understand me. If you loved God you would seek his knowledge and I would know you, and you would know me.

Translation; you too can believe what I believe if only you desire it deeply enough.

But I do not know you, and because you do not know me you will remain
un-enlightened so to speak.

Translation; you do not believe as I believe, therefore you do not believe as I believe. Additionally, I am enlightened for believing what I believe whereas you are found lacking.

 

[Nicomachus]

Page 5 Criticism of David

At the request of David I will now present an informal criticism of David's assertions from page 5 of this thread as he has offered it as proof of his erroneous positon which I have previously offered criticism. All quotes contained herein belong to David unless otherwise noted.

Who does the will of God, What is the will of God? Jesus knew these answers and God the Father already knows these answers.
If you don't know these answers you walk in fear and darkness.. You walk in sin..

Circulus in Demonstrando. Petitio Prinicpii. These are only a few of David's tactics.. What God? You cannot discuss these claims about God before you define God and prove its existence. You are simply assuming the conclusions you have come to, and you were going on about logic before, possibly you should study it more. Citing that someone is walking in fear because they do not accept your argument is pedantic.

Jesus said "The Father knows the Son and the Son knows the Father" which means simply that the Father knew and could read the knowledge thoughts of Jesus and those thoughts revealed to the Father that Jesus new the form of the Father.
Because it is the Fathers Will that we come to the full knowledge of the Father the Holy Spirit (the light of this world).
The Father is spirit.. Your Life force is spirit.. Your brothers Life force is spirit.. If you hate your brothers spirt you hate Gods Spirit..

Argumentum ad verecundiam. Also, this is irrelavent.

The spirit of God turns the Earth that you may have day and night and the seasons..
Jesus walked on water to reveal the living God to you in this way he reveals the Father (He walked with the law of God in his heart and mind for He new and loved his Father) who is the fundamental Holy Spirit POWER of the universe.

Blah blah blah. Prove it. And if you'd like, please define these concepts you are taking for granted as that is an important part of proving these statements are true.

God is the fundamental foundation of light itself (GRAVITY energy)..
Come to the full knowledge of that light, and then you will find and come to the full knowledge of your God the Father and your own Spirit.

Strange equivocation. No justification, petitio principii; so on and so forth. Nothing of substance here.

You were a part of the Spirit of God before you were born, and you will be a part of the Spirit of God Spirit when you say you die (You lived before and you will live after, God willing), and for now while you here on Earth you are the Spirit of God in the flesh, For Jesus told you, is it not written 'You are a Gods'.
Please understand and don't walk lower than the animals.. May God Bless you and forgive your ignorance..

Are you done preaching? Prove it. As well, stop being such so belligerant. You cannot call someone ignorant because they do not accept these non-axiomatic and ridiculous claims.

You want proof...

The definition of space-time, can it be separated from gravity or light? do you know your fourth dimensional motion (velocity) through the heavens? do you know the length of your second? do you truly know the real processes of electromagnetic propagation? much of this is still probably mystical and called phenomena to you.

Red herring. Some weird allusions to Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. As well, if you think "things" are not phenomena then I think you need an education. As well, please everyone notice the Delusions of Grandeur the knower or ultimate reality is displaying.

Why is the kingdom of heaven within you?

Is all you can offer a barrage of question begging and circular reasoninig? Ok, well let's see what other hair-brain concoctions you have to offer.

did you not know that inside the atom is an inverted mirror of what is occurring within the heavens.
Jesus said "all things come to them as parables because their is no root in them"
For this reason you do not know that the square root of the electron compton wavelength is, one over your total combination of galactic velocity vectors.

You sir have just violated 2 Peter 1.20. Are you not ashamed at your blasphemy? I know where this reference comes from, it is the parable of the sower, and you have decimated the verses and have applied a perverse and unwarranted interpretation, which is explicitly forbidden. Here is the verse reproduced

Mar 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.
Mar 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
Mar 4:14 The sower soweth the word.
Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Mar 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
Mar 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

David, I must say I am appalled. This verse is not dicussing "square roots;" you are being heretical. Here is David Guzicks standard and correct intepretation:

Parable of the sower explained

a. Jesus considered this parable as essential to understanding His other parable

b. The planted word has one of four fates:

i . No effect whatsoever, because of their hardness of heart and blinding work of Satan (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
ii. Immediate reception but soon stumbling as soon as tribulation or persecution arises and the shallowness of their heart is made evident
iii. Planted well, but choked out by the cares of this world; the ground is too fertile and will accommodate anything
iv. Planted well and fruitful in varying measure, because the word is accepted

c. The fate of the crop does not rest on the sower or the seed, but on how the seed is received

No one is discussing galactic velocity vectors, stop being ridiculous.

Einstein also understood that three dimensional geometry could not describe space time, as his theory of relativity predicts.

Argumentum ad verecundiam. Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. Red herring. In other words, blah blah blah.

Atomic mass can modify space time can it not? If it can then space time must be able to modify atomic mass structure. which says that space time is not as empty as you may think. Its full of God...

Wow, two non sequiturs in one assertion. Also I suppose you have sprinkled a bit of Non causa pro causa.

If mass is convertible to energy then energy is convertible to mass.

Strictly speaking, you have committed the fallacy of converting a conditional. Although, I contend this is a irrelavent. However, I must comment that I think you are alluding to either a Non causa pro causa or simply a non sequitur, perhaps both.

Your God is Energy, the very structure of space time which we can modulate and send waves through, all frequencies which travel at a singular speed, for this reason he sees everything.

God is the carrier of all sources of electromagnetic light, he even bought my advice to you.

And you wanted proof,

It is all around you. But this you see, but alas you don't see. God forgive You.

Blah blah blah. No substance.


I've responded to his other post on that page so I do not think another is warranted. So we see, David's "proof" is still nothing more than many naked assertions and a session of proselytization.
*Nico

 

[DavidSF]

Nico,
If God were to stand in front of you and said here I am.. You would not recognise Him.. You would not know Him.. You would attempt accuse Him also, as they attempted to accuse Jesus..

Luke 11:
52. "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.''
53. And as He said these things to them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to assail Him vehemently, and to cross-examine Him about many things,
54. lying in wait for Him, and seeking to catch Him in something He might say, that they might accuse Him.


If a man does 10,000 things right and appears to you do something thing wrong, you are so ready to crucify him.

Nico, there is a hatred for the truth deeply seated within you, It is possessing you and you can't see it.

I don't think there is any cure for this..

Good luck
David

 

[DavidSF]

Nico for your peace of mind my sins / blasphemes will be forgiven me.
Mark 3:
28. "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;
29. "but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation''.

For your information, God is Spirit, a transparent like fluid, which is like crystal clear water, and which fills all of space-time and matter.

Revelation 22:
1. And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

The Spirit of God is governed by laws which control its use and these laws should not be broken, these are the laws of God, laws which man has not yet understood or perceived. These are the fundamental laws governing light and the structure of gravity and time itself.

Jesus did not walk on water because he wanted to be a smart alec, but to draw your attention to the laws of gravity, the structure of time which he understood.

Jesus the son of God reveals his Spirit, and reveals his Father in
John 8:
12. Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.''

The process of converting energy to matter is a living process, look at the sand on the beaches and under the sea, it it not shells once living creatures (life).

You yourself Nico are a part of this process, don't deny your life, but come to understand what you are.

Because God is the (creative) energy of the universe, and a clear transparent fluid (the living waters) he cannot be seen because he is transparent, but everything exists only because He exists, and wants to reveal himself and his laws to you, and everyone else.

Don't fight against what will ultimately be revealed, but enjoy the challenge because it is not magic, but part of the laws governing light, electromagnetism and atomic behaviour.
Put the time into study this subject and you will give time back to God, after all he has given time to you that you might live, do this, and you will see God within your own mind, clear as crystal.

That is enough for now.

Peaceful thoughts
David

 

[olde drunk]

DavidSF:

where's the meat? you offer not proof, only quotes from misguided men that you are affraid to question.

some of what they say may be accurate. what investigation have you done to believe that 100% of these quotes are worthwhile?

as said in one quote, they are SEEDS to be planted into our psyche so that we THINK! that's all.

we should think about the ideas and reach our own conclusions. we can not, and should not unconditionally accept the explanation of any other person.

if there is a god, he provided freewill, use it!

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Nicomachus]

Nico,
If God were to stand in front of you and said here I am.. You would not recognise Him.. You would not know Him.. You would attempt accuse Him also, as they attempted to accuse Jesus..

Luke 11:
52. "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.''
53. And as He said these things to them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to assail Him vehemently, and to cross-examine Him about many things,
54. lying in wait for Him, and seeking to catch Him in something He might say, that they might accuse Him.


If a man does 10,000 things right and appears to you do something thing wrong, you are so ready to crucify him.

Nico, there is a hatred for the truth deeply seated within you, It is possessing you and you can't see it.

I don't think there is any cure for this..

Good luck
David

David I don't have any hatred for the truth; I'm just tired of your nonsense. You cannot defend *any* criticism so you resort to attacking me and spouting verses which you have yet to demonstrate the veracity. I have, in turn, demonstrated that I am more knowledgeable about this Bible you keep quoting. All you do is talk about "Woe is Nico who is going to burn in Hell but I forgive him" blah blah blah. Look, if you want to be a mindless idiot and be subserviant to nonsense then that is fine by me, but you came to this forum under the guise of seeking intellectual discussion but you have offered nothing but attempts at proselytizing.

The problem is that I am not swayed by ridiculous emotional pleas and youth-minister level discourse. I do not accept the god-concept as meaningful so when you say "You wouldn't recognize God" blah blah blah "God will forgive for your ignorance" it doesn't mean anything to me. I don't care. Provide intellectual discourse and rebuttal and dispense with this nosense. You are not attempting to "seek truth" or whatever b.s. you read in a fortune cookie; you are simply trying to have an indoctrination session and run from any criticism.

DO you know what circular reasoning, or any of the other fallacies I recognized in your argument? Do you realize you cannot come to proper or meaningful conclusions when you commit these fallacies. Also, you have NOT justified your blasphemy by disregarding 2 Peter 1.20.

In turn, I think you are deeply indoctrinated and wield the Sword of Irrationality with such might that there is no reasoning with you.
*Nico

 

[Nicomachus]

Nico for your peace of mind my sins / blasphemes will be forgiven me.
Mark 3:
28. "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;
29. "but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation''.

For your information, God is Spirit, a transparent like fluid, which is like crystal clear water, and which fills all of space-time and matter.

Revelation 22:
1. And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

The Spirit of God is governed by laws which control its use and these laws should not be broken, these are the laws of God, laws which man has not yet understood or perceived. These are the fundamental laws governing light and the structure of gravity and time itself.

Jesus did not walk on water because he wanted to be a smart alec, but to draw your attention to the laws of gravity, the structure of time which he understood.

Jesus the son of God reveals his Spirit, and reveals his Father in
John 8:
12. Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.''

The process of converting energy to matter is a living process, look at the sand on the beaches and under the sea, it it not shells once living creatures (life).

You yourself Nico are a part of this process, don't deny your life, but come to understand what you are.

Because God is the (creative) energy of the universe, and a clear transparent fluid (the living waters) he cannot be seen because he is transparent, but everything exists only because He exists, and wants to reveal himself and his laws to you, and everyone else.

Don't fight against what will ultimately be revealed, but enjoy the challenge because it is not magic, but part of the laws governing light, electromagnetism and atomic behaviour.
Put the time into study this subject and you will give time back to God, after all he has given time to you that you might live, do this, and you will see God within your own mind, clear as crystal.

That is enough for now.

Peaceful thoughts
David

Blah blah blah. Red herring. Look, this does not justify your violation of 2 Peter 1.20. You used your blasphemy of 2 Peter 1.20 in order to come to a conclusion, which in itself was ridiculous, and such is erroneous and therefore all conclusions you have made following from this reasoning must be erroneous. That is quite enough though you are correct. David you are common.
*Nico

 

[russ_watters]

You know, and this is my observation, I tend to think this is a myth. I would say women on the whole are not as religious as men, in actuality, but play that role in public. Men tend to be far more dogmatic, from my experience anyway and I have much experience in this matter. *Nico

Well - I do see (again, just my perception) that there are a lot more "Sunday Christian" women than men. They dress up nice and go to church because that's what they are expected to do even though they have no real beliefs.

Oh and russ, Greek isn't a dead language =).

Well ok then, to put a finer point on it, they are translations from a dead language.

 

[Nicomachus]

Well - I do see (again, just my perception) that there are a lot more "Sunday Christian" women than men. They dress up nice and go to church because that's what they are expected to do even though they have no real beliefs. Well ok then, to put a finer point on it, they are translations from a dead language.

Now that, I agree with.
*Nico

 

[DavidSF]

Dear Nico and even to you olde drunk,
If you had worked and studied hard for twenty years and developed a scientific level of understanding which is well beyond what is being taught today in the institutions, would you give it away indiscriminately on a forum such as this, to people such as yourselves.
I think not..
I am at a level of understanding and already corporately moving using this universal scientific knowledge gained.
Currently my company's website contains some information on this unique information, which you ask from me as proof.
I now have a scientific research team who work with me, in the area of atomic physics, and universal power and energy.

My faithfull patience has been rewarded as was promised in
Mathew 6:
33. "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

I suggest you work in the field (reaping) and earn your own wages and subsequent respect from God, as I did.

John 4:
36. "And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.
37. "For in this the saying is true: `One sows and another reaps.'
38. "I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.''

It unrealistic and unfair for you to ask me to give to you my wages, but it is fair that you earn your own wages.. believe me the job offer is out there, but you have to want to work for those wages.

Matthew 20
1. "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.
2. "Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3. "And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4. "and said to them, `You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.' And they went.

There are many people in the world who are still babes in the eyes of God, unable to eat of solid food, but live on the milk of the word only, and there are many churches which only teach this type of doctrine.
If these babes are given meat too quickly and before they are weaned and made ready for solid food they vomit it out, unable to digest it.

For this reason I suggest you consider the following statements:

Mathew 5:
20. "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven".

And

Mathew 23:
13. "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in".

I cannot make it clearer to you all than this.. Think and reason between yourselves.. Religion based knowedge is a scientific wonderworld and not just the old church teachings.

The best Bible is the New King James. Unadulterated(a direct translation from the scrolls), is written in modern english and the numbers are in conventional format (Very important for researching).

Nico ask others what they think, give them all a chance to say something, don't hog the channel so to speak, be a gentleman. After all it is supposed to be an open scientific forum.

And Nico please don't call me, or imply that I am an idiot! I have never insulted you in this way, and for a man who says "I am more knowledgeable about this Bible you keep quoting" you are getting very close to the line here..
Mathew 5:
22. "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, `Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, `You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire".

David.

 

[BoulderHead]

Dear Nico and even to you olde drunk,
If you had worked and studied hard for twenty years and developed a scientific level of understanding which is well beyond what is being taught today in the institutions, would you give it away indiscriminately on a forum such as this, to people such as yourselves.
I think not..

Well, then may I suggest the next time you don’t bother with statements like;

Proof
You want proof...
It is all around you. But this you see, but alas you don't see….

I am at a level of understanding and already corporately moving using this universal scientific knowledge gained.
Currently my company's website contains some information on this unique information, which you ask from me as proof.
I now have a scientific research team who work with me, in the area of atomic physics, and universal power and energy.

Translation; if you knew what I knew, you’d know what I know.

Not really very helpful, is it?

[edit: would you be so kind as to provide a link to your website? I would like to come over for a visit]

 

[DavidSF]

BoulderHead,

I did not come here to promote myself, but to encourage others to look beyond the conventional viewpoint of scripture, I try to open other peoples eyes and minds.

I have an obvious interest in other peoples views on God, and your forum subject intrigued me. I have met many people with my viewpoint toward scripture, all are highly skilled and qualified people. I hope you all have the strength of characture to be independant in thought towards this very subject, but don't ask the church, they don't understand. So I repeat myself.
Mathew 23:
13. "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in".

I have only scratched the surface of this knowledge base, one day you may find yourself working on a subject or project gleaned from scripture based knowledge.

I have sent you a message on how to find the website..

David

 

[loseyourname]

I did not come here to promote myself, but to encourage others to look beyond the conventional viewpoint of scripture, I try to open other peoples eyes and minds.

You came to the wrong place. Most of us could care less about scripture. Maybe you should try a religious forum.

 

[DavidSF]

Me thinks loseyourname maybe in the wrong area of the forum,
Did you loseyourway.

 

[Nicomachus]

Dear Nico and even to you olde drunk,
If you had worked and studied hard for twenty years and developed a scientific level of understanding which is well beyond what is being taught today in the institutions, would you give it away indiscriminately on a forum such as this, to people such as yourselves.
I think not..
I am at a level of understanding and already corporately moving using this universal scientific knowledge gained.
Currently my company's website contains some information on this unique information, which you ask from me as proof.
I now have a scientific research team who work with me, in the area of atomic physics, and universal power and energy.

My faithfull patience has been rewarded as was promised in
Mathew 6:
33. "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

I suggest you work in the field (reaping) and earn your own wages and subsequent respect from God, as I did.

John 4:
36. "And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.
37. "For in this the saying is true: `One sows and another reaps.'
38. "I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.''

It unrealistic and unfair for you to ask me to give to you my wages, but it is fair that you earn your own wages.. believe me the job offer is out there, but you have to want to work for those wages.

Matthew 20
1. "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.
2. "Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3. "And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4. "and said to them, `You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.' And they went.

There are many people in the world who are still babes in the eyes of God, unable to eat of solid food, but live on the milk of the word only, and there are many churches which only teach this type of doctrine.
If these babes are given meat too quickly and before they are weaned and made ready for solid food they vomit it out, unable to digest it.

For this reason I suggest you consider the following statements:

Mathew 5:
20. "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven".

And

Mathew 23:
13. "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in".

I cannot make it clearer to you all than this.. Think and reason between yourselves.. Religion based knowedge is a scientific wonderworld and not just the old church teachings.

The best Bible is the New King James. Unadulterated(a direct translation from the scrolls), is written in modern english and the numbers are in conventional format (Very important for researching).

Nico ask others what they think, give them all a chance to say something, don't hog the channel so to speak, be a gentleman. After all it is supposed to be an open scientific forum.

And Nico please don't call me, or imply that I am an idiot! I have never insulted you in this way, and for a man who says "I am more knowledgeable about this Bible you keep quoting" you are getting very close to the line here..
Mathew 5:
22. "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, `Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, `You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire".

David.

Blah blah blah David. You still refuse to respond to criticism? Your rebuttal is that you have some secret knowledge that you don't want the world to know about ... huh? Make some sense. None of that justifies your violation of 2 Peter 1.20 NOR can it ever possibly justify the NUMEROUS fallacies you have committed. I went to your company's website and it, frankly, contains more information on Perth than anything relavent to this thread. The argument "Because Pi=The circumference of a circle, God must necessarily exist" is not sufficient. And before you cry foul, this is the same sort of reasoning you have been using.

As well, I never called you an idiot; I simply said if you wanted to be a mindless-idiot then that is fine with me. But you sir have made many insults to me. You have thus far called me ignorant, afraid, given me "pity" and so on simply because I do not accept your absurd and ridiculous position. Don't threaten me with this hellfire nonsense because I frankly don't care.
Furthermore, I am not "hogging the channel" everyone is free to post. This is your defense, I am writing too often so you must be right? You have not offered one thing of substance. Granted, you have made assertions but they have been riddled with fallacies you refuse to concede, defend or make any attempt at rebuttal, much less acknowledge your erroneous statements.

If you would like to discuss the Bible then that is fine; I have demonstrated that I know much more about it than you do. You seem to take some kind of linguistic nominalism stance towards the Bible though, very odd. Why do you think the NKJV is the "best version" of the Bible, because you speak English and they changed Unicorn to Ox. You know why that is? Because a unicorn is a fairy tale creature and they wouldn't want to have fairy tale creatures in the book of ultimate reality. Though, I know much more about this subject than that but I do not know why you bring it up. One would think the original language would be the most correct, and by extension better, version. I suppose not because you don't know Greek or Hebrew and so you would not be able to cling to your Delusions of Grandeur at being the knower of ultimate reality if the clearest description of that reality were not written in a language that you know. Not only do you suffer from Delusions of Grander but you are an elitist!

Look, your delusions of Corporate Elitism or whatever the hell you are going on about will not save you. I have presented intellectual discourse but you only provide sermons and respond to criticism with condescending and pedantic attacks, with your slave mentality, threatening me with hellfire and taking "pity upon me." In your 30 or so years of scientific discovery, as you say, I suppose you have not taken the time to become an adult and to learn to reason as a man should, not as a subserviant child.
*Nico

 

[DavidSF]

Nico, I don't threaten you, because I did not write those passages within the scripture, is this maybe your own conscience speaking..

We are not acheiving anything or getting anywhere, let's just leave it at that, and agree to dissagree, I am happy with that fact, and others can make up their own minds.

I appologise if you feel I may have insulted you, if I did it was not intentional, I was probably generalising considering the amount of terrorism and wars which are in this world..

Keep safe
David.

 

[DavidSF]

I appologise to anyone who may feel I have insulted them, if you were insulted it was not intended, the scripture itself is very pointed and can easily be taken far too personally.

David

 

[olde drunk]

Giving My Gifts

gee, if i worked 20 years and found a profound answer to save the world "would i give it away"?

ABSOLUTE - LY! (my fav booze).

it's the christian thing to do. did christ charge for his sermons? just because the apostles and their followers began charging for blessings and indulgences doesn't mean it was the correct thing to do.

give it away! you can't take it with you! or is it so mystical that even you do not know how to explain the information you have?

regardless, i don't pay no stinkin donation or tithe or contribution cause organized religion is the biggest biz on the planet.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[DavidSF]

Good on you, olde drunk,

But can't you see what happened, Jesus tried so hard to give it away to whom ever wanted it, but almost no one listened, they thought he was superior and a threat to them somehow, he became a man hated without a cause, why? He only had love in his heart, and the knowledge of God to give us all.. Your a smart and experienced man capable of independant thought judge this for yourself.. But we have a Bible because a few men saw and had the guts to see the value in what Jesus said..

I wish it were that simple that I could just give it all away, but alas, it would be abused by some, such that it would not nescessarily save the world but could be used to destroy men and maybe the world..

Yes God exists but the system has a built in safeguard, for all our sakes, for this is the reason that power is only available to the disciplined (disciples).

I do know how to explain the information (gift) I have. but under the circumstances tell me, who do I give the information to, tell me who can be trusted. Loyal and true brothers are so hard to find..

Love&Peace
David

 

[olde drunk]

man's very nature is GOOD! (he is in the likeness of god). we only see the negative when we believe in the evil of man.

as you BELIEVE, so shall it be.

love&peace,
olde drunk