What's the physical meaning of Curl of Curl of a Vector Field?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the physical meaning of the curl of the curl of a vector field, specifically in the context of vector calculus and its applications in physics. Participants explore the mathematical expressions involved, including the relationships between the curl, divergence, and Laplacian operators, as well as their physical interpretations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the identity $$\nabla \times (\nabla \times \mathbf{A}) = \nabla (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A}) - \nabla^2 \mathbf{A}$$ and questions how the gradient of divergence and divergence of gradient relate to curl.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the physical meaning of the terms can only be understood in specific physical contexts, suggesting that practical experience in physics will clarify their significance.
  • A later reply introduces a similar expression for the magnetic field, $$\nabla \times (\nabla \times \mathbf{B}) = \nabla (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{B}) - \nabla^2 \mathbf{B}$$, and asks for its physical representation.
  • One participant mentions the use of the vector identity in conjunction with Maxwell's equations to derive second-order differential equations for light waves, indicating a potential application of the concepts discussed.
  • Another participant summarizes the distinction between scalar and vector Laplacians, noting that the vector Laplacian measures how the average of a vector field differs from the field itself at a point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the physical meaning of the terms involved, with some asserting that context is necessary for understanding, while others seek specific interpretations. No consensus is reached on the physical implications of the discussed mathematical expressions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of relating mathematical operations to physical interpretations, with participants noting the need for specific physical situations to derive meaning from the mathematical identities. There are unresolved questions regarding the addition of vector and scalar functions in the context of the Laplacian.

PLAGUE
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TL;DR
How does gradient of divergence and divergence of gradient relate to curl?
So, curl of curl of a vector field is, $$\nabla \times (\nabla \times \mathbf{A}) = \nabla (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A}) - \nabla^2 \mathbf{A}$$

Now, curl means how much a vector field rotates counterclockwise. Then, curl of curl should mean how much the curl rotate counterclockwise.

The laplacian is divergence of the gradient of a scalar function. The Laplacian takes a scalar valued function and gives back a scalar valued function. While, $$\nabla (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A})$$ is a vector valued function (since it is gradient of divergence). How can we add these Vector function and scaler function?

And how does $$\nabla (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A})$$ and $$\nabla^2 \mathbf{A}$$, i.e. gradient of divergence and divergence of gradient relate to curl?

And what does $$\nabla (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A})$$ and $$\nabla^2 \mathbf{A}$$ mean physically?
 
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PLAGUE said:
How does gradient of divergence and divergence of gradient relate to curl?
This might help:

 
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What those terms mean physically can only be answered in the context of a physical situation. If you work enough in physics, you will come across physical situations that need those terms. That will answer your question
 
Meir Achuz said:
What those terms mean physically can only be answered in the context of a physical situation. If you work enough in physics, you will come across physical situations that need those terms. That will answer your question
How about
$$\nabla \times (\nabla \times \mathbf{B}) = \nabla (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{B}) - \nabla^2 \mathbf{B}$$?

Here B is the magnetic field. What do they represent here physically?
 
Last edited:
PLAGUE said:
TL;DR Summary: How does gradient of divergence and divergence of gradient relate to curl?

The laplacian is divergence of the gradient of a scalar function. The Laplacian takes a scalar valued function and gives back a scalar valued function. While, ∇(∇⋅A) is a vector valued function (since it is gradient of divergence). How can we add these Vector function and scaler function?
There are two Laplace operators, the scalar Laplacian and the vector Laplacian. The Laplacian ## \nabla^2 ## used in the equation $$ \nabla \times (\nabla \times \mathbf A) = \nabla (\nabla \cdot \mathbf A) - \nabla^2 \mathbf A $$ is the vector Laplace operator. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace_operator#Vector_Laplacian) The vector Laplacian is sometimes represented by a regular hexagram to distinguish the vector Laplace operator from the scalar Laplace operator.

The physical meaning of the vector Laplacian is the same as the physical meaning of the scalar Laplacian. The Laplacian of a scalar field at point p measures the amount by which the average of the scalar over small balls centered at p differs from the scalar at p while the Laplacian of a vector field at point p measures the amount by which the average of the vector over small balls centered at p differs from the vector at p.
 

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