What's with 'virtual' phonons in BCS pairing?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the role of virtual phonons in explaining BCS pairing in type I superconductors, exploring the distinction between real and virtual phonons and their contributions to superconductivity. The scope includes theoretical concepts from quantum field theory and condensed matter physics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the necessity of virtual phonons in BCS pairing, noting that phonons are typically associated with lattice vibrations.
  • One participant explains that real phonons represent propagating lattice deformations, while virtual phonons describe static lattice deformations around perturbations like electrons.
  • A participant introduces the concept of quantum field theory, suggesting that interactions between particles are modeled through the exchange of virtual bosons, specifically virtual phonons in the context of superconductivity.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on whether the attractive potential in pairing arises from virtual momentum exchange or from both virtual and real phonons.
  • There is a mention of quantum tunneling being related to virtual processes, though this claim is challenged by another participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the roles of real and virtual phonons in BCS pairing, with no consensus reached on the extent to which each contributes to the phenomenon.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to quantum field theory and the nature of phonons, but lacks detailed mathematical formulations or definitions that could clarify the underlying assumptions and dependencies.

Creator
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Can someone explain why virtual phonons are necessary to explain BCS pairing in type I superconductors. I thought phonons originated with the lattice vibrations. I read that it s the 'virtual" phonons that explains the pairing; how so? what am I missing ?
 
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Real phonons are lattice deformations which can propagate freely, i.e. sound waves.
Virtual phonons are needed to describe e.g. static lattice deformations surrounding a perturbation, e.g. an electron. In the most simple limit this gives the rubber surface description of Cooper pairing: An electron behaves like a ball on a rubber surface, it creates a deformation of the surface and a second electron (ball) will fall into that hole.
 
Creator said:
Can someone explain why virtual phonons are necessary to explain BCS pairing in type I superconductors. I thought phonons originated with the lattice vibrations. I read that it s the 'virtual" phonons that explains the pairing; how so? what am I missing ?

You are missing Quantum Field Theory.

The idea here is that one is trying to describe the interaction between two objects. Naively, in QFT, this is accomplished via the exchange of a virtual bosonic "particle". In E&M, it is the exchange of virtual photon. In condensed matter physics, it can be any boson that is the equivalent of a 'vacuum excitation'. In the case of conventional superconductivity, this is the virtual phonons.

In other cases, you can have an exchange of magnons, polarons, etc...

Zz.
 
Thank you both for the replies. So the pairing is a result mostly of the virtual phonon exchange, and not the real phonons that originate in the lattice...or both? Can either of you describe the effect of each if possible.
2. So is it the virtual momentum exchange that causes the attractive potential,?
Thanks.
 
if quantum tunneling is involved its all virtual
 
kimcosmos said:
if quantum tunneling is involved its all virtual

No it doesn't. Show me the physics that says this.

This is also a necropost.

Zz.
 

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