What's Wrong with the First Primitive Cell Choice?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the choice of primitive cells in the context of calculating Fourier coefficients for a lattice potential represented by delta functions at atomic sites. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the validity of their first choice of primitive cell compared to a second choice, which appears to yield correct coefficients.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand why their first choice of primitive cell results in incorrect Fourier coefficients, while the second choice yields correct results. They question the nature of the second cell as a primitive cell.
  • Some participants question the impact of the choice of origin on the Fourier coefficients, suggesting that different origins may lead to different results.
  • Others note that the coefficients depend on the function being transformed and the choice of origin, prompting a discussion about the implications of this on the Fourier transform results.
  • There is a mention of a mix-up in the indices used in the calculations, which some participants highlight as a potential source of error.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring various interpretations of the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the effects of changing the origin on the Fourier coefficients, and there is acknowledgment of a mix-up in the calculations. The original poster expresses concern about the implications of their findings on the choice of primitive cell.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of Fourier transforms in the context of periodic potentials and band gaps, with specific attention to how different choices of primitive cells and origins may affect the resulting coefficients and energy calculations.

luka77777778

Homework Statement


When calculating the Fourier coefficients of the potential of the following lattice (the potential is a sum of deltas at the atom sites):
Iy1Sw.jpg


I get the wrong coefficients if I choose the following primitve cell, with primitve vectors a1,a2:
YcEmZ.jpg


And the right coefficients if I choose the following primitve cell:
FRcXt.jpg


Question: What's wrong with the first choice? Is the cell chosen in the second picture even a primitve cell?

The Attempt at a Solution



First choice[/B]:

## U_K=\int_{primitve cell} \textbf[\delta(r)+\delta(r-a1)+\delta(r-a1-\frac{1}{2}a2)+\delta(r-a1-a2)+\delta(r-a2) +\delta(r-\frac{1}{2})+\delta(r-\frac{1}{2}a1-\frac{1}{2}a2)\textbf]\space e^{-i K r}\space dr
##for ##K=\frac{2\pi}{a}(m,n)## I then get ##U_K= 1+(-1)^m+(-1)^{m+n}##

Second choice (the right one):

##U_K=1+(-1)^m + (-1)^n##
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Why do you think you got the wrong coefficients in the first case?
 
In the book they state the first case as a solution, so I suppose it's correct...
 
Well, this does not really answer the question. If you have a different origin you will get different Fourier coefficients. Did you try making the translation?
 
I don't understand why the choice of origin would make any difference. The coefficients depend only on K which is a reciprocal lattice vector, and for the same K both choices (if they're correct) should give the same value.
If I take, for example the reciprocal vector ##K=\frac{2\pi}{a}(-1,-1)## (m=-1, n=-1) they don't give the same value.
 
luka77777778 said:
I don't understand why the choice of origin would make any difference.

Changing the origin changes the function you are Fourier transforming according to ##f(\vec x) \to f(\vec x - \vec d)##, where ##\vec d## is the displacement of the origin. You should not expect to get the same Fourier coefficients for different functions. It should hold that
$$
U_{\vec k, \vec d} = \int f(\vec x - \vec d) e^{-i \vec k \cdot \vec x} d^2x = \int f(\vec x) e^{-i\vec k\cdot (\vec x + \vec d)} d^2x
= e^{-i\vec k \cdot \vec d} \int f(\vec x) e^{-\vec k \cdot \vec x} d^2 x = e^{-i\vec k \cdot\vec d} U_{\vec k},
$$
which is not equal to ##U_{\vec k}## unless ##\vec k \cdot \vec d## is a multiple of ##2\pi##.

Edit: Also note that you mixed up ##m## and ##n## when computing your first transform. Your result is not compatible with your definition of ##m## and ##n## so be careful with this.
 
Last edited:
(You're correct about the mixup). The problem was that when I was calculating band gaps that aries due to the peridodic potential in the corner of the 1st Brillouin zone you get a matrix with different Fourier coefficients of the potential and you calculate the gaps using the condition ##det(Matrix)=0## , I thought that if the coefficients for different ##K=\frac{2\pi}{a}(m,n)## change based on the choice of origin, so will the matrix change and I will get different energy gaps depending on what I choose as the origin (which would be pretty stupid :D). So I checked and the matrix does change but at the end (I'm not sure exactly why) the energies stay the same, which is only logical, since both choices are a primitive cell. So the main thing that I was concerned about was wheter or not I have made the wrong choice for the primitive cell(2nd image) .
 
This is the matrix I was talking about :

MvOKLLv.jpg
 

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