When does the vector potential A affect the E field?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the role of the vector potential A in electromagnetism, particularly its influence on the electric field E as described by the equation \(\vec{E} = - \nabla V - \frac{\partial \vec{A}}{\partial t}\). Participants explore when the second term is non-zero, the conditions under which A becomes time-dependent, and the implications of these conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the vector potential A affects the electric field E when A is time-dependent.
  • Others propose that A becomes time-dependent when there are changing charge distributions or currents.
  • A participant mentions that the free plane-wave modes of the electromagnetic field can serve as a simple example of time-dependent A.
  • One participant introduces a condition regarding the time derivative of the magnetic field B, stating it vanishes if the underlying space is simply connected.
  • Another participant challenges a claim regarding the conditions under which the time derivative of B vanishes, referencing Maxwell's equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions that lead to a time-dependent vector potential A and the implications for the electric field E. There is no consensus on the correctness of certain claims, particularly regarding the relationship between the time derivative of B and the conditions outlined by Maxwell's equations.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific assumptions about the underlying space being simply connected, which may not universally apply. Additionally, there are unresolved mathematical steps and definitions that could affect the interpretations of the claims made.

DoobleD
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This is probably fairly simple, but I have a hard time to grasp the concept of the vector potential A in electromgnetism. Especially, in the following equation for the electric field :

\vec{E} = - \nabla V - \frac{\partial \vec{A}}{\partial t}

When does the second term is not 0 ?
 
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When the vector potential is time-dependent.
 
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Orodruin said:
When the vector potential is time-dependent.

Aha, thanks, but that's obvious in the equation. I'm looking to what makes it time-dependent.

EDIT : Well actually, I suppose this is when B is time-dependent ?
 
You need charge distributions or currents that change over time. Otherwise everything can be treated as static.
 
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DoobleD said:
Aha, thanks, but that's obvious in the equation. I'm looking to what makes it time-dependent.

EDIT : Well actually, I suppose this is when B is time-dependent ?
See Jefimenko's equations.
 
As the most simple example take the free plane-wave modes of the electromagnetic field. In the radiation gauge, i.e., with the potentials fulfilling
$$A^0=V=0, \quad \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{A}=0,$$
You have
$$\vec{A}(t,\vec{x})=\vec{A}_0 \exp(-\mathrm{i} \omega t+\mathrm{i} \vec{k} \cdot \vec{x}),$$
where ##\vec{A}_0 \cdot \vec{k}=0## and ##\omega=c |\vec{k}|##. Then
$$\vec{E}=-\frac{1}{c} \partial_t \vec{A}=\mathrm{i} \omega/c \vec{A}_0 \exp(\cdots), \quad \vec{B}=\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{A} = \mathrm{i} \vec{k} \times \vec{A}_0 \exp(\cdots).$$
 
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If the underlying space is simply connected, the time derivative of the vector potential vanishes if the time derivative of the magnetic field vanishes:

##\mathrm{d}_\mathrm{s}B = 0 \Rightarrow B = \mathrm{d}_\mathrm{s} A##, where the subscript s stands for "spatial". Or in other notation ##\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{A} = \vec{B}##. You can pull the time derivative into ##\mathrm{d}_\mathrm{s}##.

The time derivative of ##\vec{B}## vanishes if and only if ##\vec{j} + \frac{\partial \vec{E}}{\partial t} = 0## (in natural units with ##c=1##).

If the underlying space is not simply connected, there does not a priori exist a vector potential, and hence the right side of your equation does not necessarily exist.
 
Thanks for the answers and insights ! It does help.
 
Metmann said:
The time derivative of ##\vec{B}## vanishes if and only if ##\vec{j} + \frac{\partial \vec{E}}{\partial t} = 0## (in natural units with ##c=1##).

That's wrong. According to Maxwell's equations, the time derivative of B vanishes if and only if
$$
\nabla \times \mathbf{E} = \mathbf{0}.
$$
 
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  • #10
Jano L. said:
That's wrong

Sure, I would edit it, but somehow this isn't possible any longer. But thanks for correcting it.
 

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