When is integral closure generated by one element

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which the integral closure of a ring generated by an integral element can fail to be generated by a single element. Participants explore examples and counterexamples related to integrally closed domains and their integral closures, particularly in the context of number fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a concrete example where the integral closure of a ring generated by an integral element is not of the form R[b] for any element b in the closure.
  • Another participant questions the initial example, suggesting that the conditions imply R = R[a], indicating a misunderstanding of the setup.
  • A clarification is made regarding the use of the notation, confirming that R is indeed the ring of integers and a is the square root of 5.
  • One participant asserts that there exist counterexamples to the integral closure equaling R[b], emphasizing that not all rings of integers in number fields have power bases, referencing Richard Dedekind's work.
  • A later reply expresses appreciation for the information shared, indicating a newfound awareness of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the examples provided and the implications of the conditions set forth. There is no consensus on a specific example that fulfills the initial query, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the existence of such examples.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the examples discussed are limited to number fields, and there is an acknowledgment of the complexity surrounding the structure of the ring of integers and the concept of power bases.

coquelicot
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Hello,
This is not a homework problem, nor a textbook question. Please do not remove.
Is there a concrete example of the following setup :
R is an integrally closed domain,
a is an integral element over R,
S is the integral closure of R[a] in its fraction field,
S is not of the form R{[}b{]} for any element b in S.

For example, the integral closure of {\mathbb Z}(\sqrt 5) is the set of elements of the form (m + \sqrt 5 n)/2, where m^2 - 5n^2 is a multiple of 4. So, S is generated by \sqrt 5/2 over \mathbb Z: This does not fulfill the desired conditions.
 
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i don't understand. in your example apparently R is not integrally closed. in fact under your conditions, that R is integrally closed and a is integral over R, this implies that R = R[a], doesn't it?

Oh sorry, you meant integral over it but in some finite field extension of its fraction field. so your R was Z and your a was sqrt(5). got it. and maybe you meant Z[sqrt(5)] instead of Z(sqrt(5))?
 
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Yes, I meant {\mathbb Z}{[}\sqrt 5{]}.
In my example, R = {\mathbb Z},\ a = \sqrt 5 and S is the integral closure of {\mathbb Z}[\sqrt 5] in {\mathbb Z}(\sqrt 5), which has the form given above.
 
the answer is there does exist such a counter example Z[a] to the integral closure equaling Z[ b]. all your examples are numbers fields, and all number fields fall into your examples. You are asking for the structure of the ring of integers, which is known to have a finite basis as an abelian group. You want that basis to be the powers, up to some finite power, of a single integral element.
It is well known since Richard Dedekind that not all rings of integers in number fields have so called "power bases". here is a reference: (or just search on "non monogenic fields".)

http://wstein.org/129-05/final_papers/Yan_Zhang.pdf
 
Last edited:
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Very useful. I was completely unaware of this topic. Thank you so many mathwonk.
 

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