Where do all the interfered photons go?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of phase shifts in the double slit experiment and the fate of photons that undergo interference. Participants explore the existence of photons in scenarios of destructive interference, the nature of vacuum energy, and the concept of virtual particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether photons still exist when they experience destructive interference, particularly in the context of a 180-degree phase shift.
  • Others argue that photons are not destroyed in the double slit experiment; rather, they contribute to a statistical distribution that forms an interference pattern over time.
  • A participant suggests that the concept of virtual particles may relate to the discussion of missing photons and vacuum energy, though this remains speculative.
  • There is a proposal to consider using multiple sources and photons to explore interference effects, although some participants caution that understanding the underlying physics is crucial.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between photons and wave-particle duality, suggesting that photons are treated as particles whose statistical behavior results in an interference pattern.
  • Another participant emphasizes that changing the slit configuration alters the interference pattern, redistributing photons rather than canceling them.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of creating a scenario where photons are emitted in a way that results in zero net electromagnetic effect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that photons are not destroyed in the double slit experiment, but there is no consensus on the implications of phase shifts, the nature of vacuum energy, or the existence of "missing" photons. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and implications of concepts like vacuum energy and virtual particles, as well as the mathematical treatment of these phenomena. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and assumptions about the double slit experiment and photon behavior.

  • #31
ppzmis has given me something to think about. I do have some "personal misthinkings" interfering with my complete acceptance of theory. I'm sure this is easy to relate to. Theories always seem to be incomplete, yet useful. Useful is what matters ultimately. (The point of the scientific method is to separate useful beliefs from junk.)

I am now well reminded of the fact that the electromagnetic wave can leaves the source as a wave, and interferes until a particle is detected.
Also, I am clear that once the wave is even partially affected by detection, it 'seems' to coalesce into a deterministic particle path.

I once realized that the wave particle duality would not be such a problem if it were not for all the structure of matter. A wave cannot be detected with another wave alone, matter must be involved. When a wave is emitted, it is not a particle until it interacts with the 'certainty' of a test particle.

I realize I have been soley taking aim at the wave particle duality without realizing it. I will have difficulty talking on the forums, my beliefs let me see no difference between the wave and a sea of overlapping particles, I can even account for electrostatics and gravity. What a creative mind will do to simplifiy... Sorry, this forum might not the right place to explore my question. I'm straightened out none the less, thank you. I accept the physics.
 
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  • #32
Has a background of very densely interfered photons been ever mathematically substituted for the waves? I presume this might align with concepts like loop gravity etc... Are there any theories which define vacuum fluctuations as a sea of interfering photons?
 
  • #33
if there were as many Ganges rivers as the sand-grains of the Ganges, would the sand-grains of them all be many? (Good night.)
 
  • #34
rchase said:
Has a background of very densely interfered photons been ever mathematically substituted for the waves? I presume this might align with concepts like loop gravity etc... Are there any theories which define vacuum fluctuations as a sea of interfering photons?

You are mixing up waves and photons. The wave gives you the probability of finding a photon. If the wave is zero, THERE ARE NO PHOTONS. Photons do not interfere, waves interfere. There is no such thing as an interfered photon, its a contradiction in terms.

If you add two coherent beams together that are 180 degrees out of phase, nothing comes out, no photons, no energy, no momentum, nothing.

If the two beams are separate before they are added, their individual energy, momentum, photons, whatever are redirected elsewhere. Energy and momentum are conserved.
 
  • #35
Rap said:
How does the absorbing medium determine whether the photon is a destructively or constructively interfered photon?
Previous photons that have reached absorbing medium before particular photon create the state in medium that can interfere (or resonate) with particular photon.

Rap said:
Single photon interference can be nicely explained if we assume that photons are simply redistributed. However this approach will require some action at a distance when trying to explain Bell type photon experiments.

I don't understand how. Can you explain that more fully?
This is done using pilot-wave interpretation.
In case of double slit experiment this interpretation says that photons don't take straight paths but instead are deflected toward constructive interference areas.
 
  • #36
Does the path of a charged particle in a weak magnetic field absorb photons in a quantized to curve it's path, or just interact with the background field? The question is, is everything end up photons, or not all electromagnetic interactions? Or do we only consider the wave photons when it hits a "atom" with both a positive and negative charge?
 

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