Where do you consider yourself politically (Poll)

What to do you consider yourself politically?

  • 1: Very conservative

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • 2: Conservative

    Votes: 5 9.3%
  • 3: Moderate

    Votes: 12 22.2%
  • 4: Liberal/progressive

    Votes: 15 27.8%
  • 5: Very liberal/progressive

    Votes: 9 16.7%
  • 9: None of the Above

    Votes: 11 20.4%

  • Total voters
    54
  • Poll closed .

russ_watters

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Sure, you are correct that both Republicans as Democrats are hostile to environmentalism. That does answer why you prefer not to identify as a Democrat on these issues, but not why you like to identify as a Republican? Why just identify as neither? Do you believe that you must identify as one or another?
That's not what I said. I said that they are hostile to science when it comes to environmentalism. But to answer the questions:
1. Yes, I believe I must identify as one or the other.
2. Republican policies, while based on anti-science views, produce better scientific results on key parts of this issue*. That's deliciously ironic, but the point to me is that the policy itself is what matters, not the philosophy behind it.

*I'm specifically referring to global warming/carbon emissions. I consider it the most significant environmentalist issue today. However, I also consider GM/organic food to be an issue of considerable importance.
 
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russ_watters

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But from my reading of it, these anti-science elements are very much part of the fringe, and no Democratic candidate, at least in recent years, have ever openly supported positions (as far as I'm aware of) that was truly contrary to scientific evidence. Certainly no Democrat has ever been openly opposed to or reject evolution, as one particular example.
I can't tell if the word "open" is the key word in that passage (you said it twice, so....) but to me it is more important that they support scientifically sound policies than that they say the like or dislike science. I'm more of a "where the rubber meets the road" guy and I don't find it particularly relevant whether a person's anti-science views are "open" or covert.
 

OmCheeto

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My score:
View attachment 86317

Anyone else thrown by this question?
"Multinational companies are unethically exploiting the plant genetic resources of developing countries."

What does that even mean? Sounds hippie, so I said "strongly disagree".
I believe we discussed this at one point or another. Ah ha! Young Om on the downsides of Globalization [PF] 1/1/2008

Looking back over it though, it looks as though the multinationals lost most of the law suits.
But I selected "strongly agree", based on the memory.

ps. Here's my new and improved leanings:

Om.political.compass.2015.07.25.0810.am.png


Anyone know how to find the old ones? I have a feeling that I'm moving to the right and up, as I pro/regress into my senior years.
 

StatGuy2000

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That's not what I said. I said that they are hostile to science when it comes to environmentalism. But to answer the questions:
1. Yes, I believe I must identify as one or the other.
2. Republican policies, while based on anti-science views, produce better scientific results on key parts of this issue*. That's deliciously ironic, but the point to me is that the policy itself is what matters, not the philosophy behind it.

*I'm specifically referring to global warming/carbon emissions. I consider it the most significant environmentalist issue today. However, I also consider GM/organic food to be an issue of considerable importance.
russ, I'm curious as to why you feel you must identify as either a Democrat or a Republican. If the issue is based on the particular policy concerned (btw, I am skeptical of your claim that Republican policies actually produce better scientific results on key parts of the issues you raise, to the extent that these policies are actually Republican issues as opposed to issues with bipartisan support, but that's a separate argument), then wouldn't it be more logical to consider yourself an independent, and support or oppose a given policy based on their merits, regardless of which political party that policy originated from? Why do you feel you need to align yourself to a particular political party?

Even though I identify myself as largely left-of-centre in my political views, I am first and foremost an independent. I am not a member of any political party, either in Canada or the US (I'm a dual citizen living in Canada, and hence can vote in both Canadian & American elections), and I support a given political party based on a range of views and policies and whether those policies make sense.
 

Choppy

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Much like others I have a difficult time answering questions like this.

On some issues I lean right. On other issues I lean left. It's not because I sit on the fence. I have strong opinions about certain things, but I like to think that I am open enough to be swayed by an accumulation of evidence.

I really didn't like that quiz that Evo posted because I felt that for a lot of the questions my answer was very dependent on the specific wording. For example, I rarely if ever believe in absolutes when it comes to politics and yet many of the questions seemed to be worded that way.
 
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russ, I'm curious as to why you feel you must identify as either a Democrat or a Republican. If the issue is based on the particular policy concerned (btw, I am skeptical of your claim that Republican policies actually produce better scientific results on key parts of the issues you raise, to the extent that these policies are actually Republican issues as opposed to issues with bipartisan support, but that's a separate argument), then wouldn't it be more logical to consider yourself an independent, and support or oppose a given policy based on their merits, regardless of which political party that policy originated from? Why do you feel you need to align yourself to a particular political party?

Even though I identify myself as largely left-of-centre in my political views, I am first and foremost an independent. I am not a member of any political party, either in Canada or the US (I'm a dual citizen living in Canada, and hence can vote in both Canadian & American elections), and I support a given political party based on a range of views and policies and whether those policies make sense.
I don't get it either. I find Russ' insistence that people should try to fit themselves into the best possible choice, even if that's the lesser of all evils, to be eccentric:
Big boxes, not little boxes. People want to be unique: they want their own little box, not to be collected into the same big box as everyone else...

My perception with discussions like this is that because people don't like to be put in big boxes, they argue against them instead of just answering the question as best they can. Like it or not, though, people get put in boxes all the time -- they must be in order to analyze group beliefs. Or, to vote in an election: An election is almost literally putting yourself (your vote) into a box...

You can't argue your way out of a box by arguing about the label. We could easily re-name them "Box 1" and "Box 2" if that would help, but it doesn't change anything so it should not be necessary...


...but still your problem and not the poll's. Everyone needs to average their own views and weigh them against the choices in this poll and actual elections and pick the closest fit.
But sometimes these are the wrong boxes...
...which does not preclude answering the poll.
When I posted the infamous "buggered" question (post #31), Russ ignored all his own above rationalizations and declined to pick a category for himself, despite the fact he doesn't seem to have left anyone a good reason for questioning any poll.
 

russ_watters

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I don't get it either. I find Russ' insistence that people should try to fit themselves into the best possible choice, even if that's the lesser of all evils, to be eccentric:

When I posted the infamous "buggered" question (post #31), Russ ignored all his own above rationalizations and declined to pick a category for himself, despite the fact he doesn't seem to have left anyone a good reason for questioning any poll.
Actually, I missed that post, but I don't get the relevance. No one is trying to trick or trap anyone here, though I definitely agree that people are reacting as if they are being trapped!

I really don't get this either. Don't you people vote? How do you avoid - almost literally - placing yourself in a box? But to be a bit more specific:
I'm curious as to why you feel you must identify as either a Democrat or a Republican... then wouldn't it be more logical to consider yourself an independent, and support or oppose a given policy based on their merits, regardless of which political party that policy originated from? Why do you feel you need to align yourself to a particular political party?

Even though I identify myself as largely left-of-centre in my political views, I am first and foremost an independent. I am not a member of any political party, either in Canada or the US (I'm a dual citizen living in Canada, and hence can vote in both Canadian & American elections), and I support a given political party based on a range of views and policies and whether those policies make sense.
There's two reasons, one legal and one practical:
1. I vote in Pennsylvania and in Pennsylvania, you must be registered to a political party in order to vote in that party's primary elections. Some people (my parents have done it, but I haven't) switch their party registry when they see a primary election they consider important and want to vote in it.

2. What you are saying implies you think I always vote Republican. I don't, but I usually do. So as a matter of practical reality, that makes me a Republican. Frankly, I think a great many people who self-identify as "independent" are just not self aware or are too belligerant regarding the "boxes" issue to accept what they are. Just look at the poll above: a full 50% voted for "moderate" or "none of the above", when the reality is that for those who took the quiz, the swing is pretty solidly to the left:
Very Right: 0
Right: 4
Middle: 1
Left: 1
Very Left: 4

I assume some of the disconnect is due to people who are so very far left that they labeled themselves "none of the above" because "very liberal" wasn't far enough left to capture them.

You guys almost sound mad that I'm not on your team (or just that I'm on the Republican team), which is flattering, I guess, but remember: we've only talked about one issue here: how the parties interact with science. As you should all be well aware, my views on economic freedom are very solidly Republican, and economics is basically half of what government is about.

By the way, "eccentric": (of a person or their behavior) unconventional and slightly strange.
This is a few years old, but in 2012, a record high, 42%, self-identified as "independent" (in 2005, it was an equal 33%, 33%, 33%).
http://www.gallup.com/poll/166763/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx

It is my perception that people are either not self-aware enough to know where they fit or just don't like being put in boxes, so they purposely falsely self-label, but either way, that leaves 57% who self-identify as Democrat or Republican. So no, my position on the issue of whether to self-identify as the closest to me even if it doesn't exactly fit is not "eccentric", it's the majority position. Yours is the "unconventional" position.
 
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Actually, I missed that post, but I don't get the relevance. No one is trying to trick or trap anyone here, though I definitely agree that people are reacting as if they are being trapped!
Not trapped so much as shoehorned into a box that is not a good fit, all in the service of someone else's purposes:
The person asking a question is the one who gets to decide what is most important to him/her (what s/he wants to know).
Everyone has to wonder what the person making the poll is up to and whether they want to participate in that agenda.

I think it's eccentric of you to suppose all polls are fine. They're actually very hard to compose properly, something I know from having tried it here, from seeing other people's attempts get picked to pieces here (usually justifiably) and from encountering polls in real life that left me baffled, unable to pick an answer.

It's not all that hard to call yourself one thing or another for voting purposes because you're not stuck to it in the actual voting. If people were required to vote a party line all the way through the ballot, I think then there'd be a lot of objection to it.
 

russ_watters

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Not trapped so much as shoehorned into a box that is not a good fit, all in the service of someone else's purposes:

Everyone has to wonder what the person making the poll is up to and whether they want to participate in that agenda.
Are you serious? Again, don't you vote? I find it ridiculous that you assume a nefarious motive behind what could not be a more mundane question! If I ask you your favorite color or your favorite movie, would you assume I am trying to trick you into revealing racism? Jeez, get a grip! Clearly, the OP was curious what peoples' political afiliations are. The audacity! :rolleyes:
I think it's eccentric of you to suppose all polls are fine.
I've never said anything of the sort.
 
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Are you serious? Again, don't you vote?
Yes, I'm serious, and I answered the second question in the last sentence of #61.
I find it ridiculous that you assume a nefarious motive behind what could not be a more mundane question!
Every poll has an agenda. The potential participant should wonder what it is and whether or not they want to participate. I certainly did not say the OP had a nefarious agenda, nor am I saying political polls have a nefarious agenda. I am saying they have an agenda, and it's perfectly O.K. to wonder what it might be and question whether you want to participate. The same is true of non-political polls.

A paucity of choices, in my mind, can be an indicator that the designer of the poll is, consciously or not, limiting potential responses in order to shoehorn the responses into being evidence to confirm some bias, some thing they already believe. I think Vanadium's objection was a good one: if the boxes seem wrong for you, don't participate. In a mercenary vein, a poll may be exclusively about collecting demographic information for marketing. My favorite color and movie along with a few other inocuous-seeming tidbits might get me flooded with irritating spam.

On the other hand, someone's agenda might be pure curiosity. Not all agendas are bad, but everything you said about polls seems to add up to the notion that all polls are perfectly above board. That is: you contradicted every reservation anyone posted about polls.
 
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really don't get this either. Don't you people vote? How do you avoid - almost literally - placing yourself in a box?
I vote for the party that best, or most, represents my views.

What does not happen is that I am told what my views are, and if I disagree it is my fault and not the polls.

So no, I do not vote liberal because somebody tells me I am a liberal.

If I ask you your favorite color or movie
Yes, if you ask
red
blue
or
other


or
Horror
Comedy

That is a flawed poll, especially, if you try to rationalise it by suggesting that , say orange, is so close to red, then the answer for someone whose favourite colour is orange, is in fact red. Or if somebody liked action films....etc..

The poll is severly flawed, and it says more about the bias if the pollster than the voters. The bias is because it ignores one of the largest political movements in the world.

The trick to getting a good poll to find out what people really want is to ask the correct question(s)

edit: zooby just said effectively what I was thinking.
 
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They're actually very hard to compose properly,
This

The same question can be framed is many ways.

The wording

The order of options can make a difference.

It is why most democracies have electoral commissions to ensure that the question is as unbiased as possible. There are lots of arguments about how exactly to make a question as unloaded as possible. And that is difficult to do because we all take a bias to the table.

The question for the upcoming UK referendum on membership of the EU is a prime example.

Some people wanted a In/Out question
Some wanted a Yes/No question

Another good example is the clarity act in Canada.
 

StatGuy2000

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Yes, I'm serious, and I answered the second question in the last sentence of #61.

Every poll has an agenda. The potential participant should wonder what it is and whether or not they want to participate. I certainly did not say the OP had a nefarious agenda, nor am I saying political polls have a nefarious agenda. I am saying they have an agenda, and it's perfectly O.K. to wonder what it might be and question whether you want to participate. The same is true of non-political polls.

A paucity of choices, in my mind, can be an indicator that the designer of the poll is, consciously or not, limiting potential responses in order to shoehorn the responses into being evidence to confirm some bias, some thing they already believe. I think Vanadium's objection was a good one: if the boxes seem wrong for you, don't participate. In a mercenary vein, a poll may be exclusively about collecting demographic information for marketing. My favorite color and movie along with a few other inocuous-seeming tidbits might get me flooded with irritating spam.

On the other hand, someone's agenda might be pure curiosity. Not all agendas are bad, but everything you said about polls seems to add up to the notion that all polls are perfectly above board. That is: you contradicted every reservation anyone posted about polls.
If you are stating whether I have an agenda, yes, I have an agenda -- to get a snapshot of the political beliefs/philosophies/tendencies/voting preferences of the participants of PF. I suppose my real interest is the political alignments of those who work in the STEM field overall, but I acknowledge that the participants of PF are not necessarily a representative sample of those who work in the field. This poll is purely for my own curiosity (and hopefully the curiosity of others on PF), and one shouldn't read any more into this than any other poll conducted here.

You mention about the paucity of choices -- keep in mind the following:

(1) I'm not a professional pollster, not am I an expert in political science, sociology, or psychology. Even though I'm trained in statistics, many statistics graduates are not especially well-trained in the development of polls (including those about political preferences). So I presented this poll in a scale that seems to be the most intuitive (to me) about how to ask about political preferences (on the left-right spectrum). If there are ways that I could present these polls in a manner that you, Vanadium or William White, feel would better capture the political preferences, then please, suggest them to me.

(2) Also, PF has only a limited capacity in terms of the # of poll options. Keep that in mind when criticizing me about the way the poll is designed.
 
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If there are ways that I could present these polls in a manner that you, Vanadium or William White, feel would better capture the political preferences, then please, suggest them to me.

(2) Also, PF has only a limited capacity in terms of the # of poll options. Keep that in mind when criticizing me about the way the poll is designed.
I've said quite clearly that there is not an option for "socialist" or even "leftist".

A quick google on the difference between socialism and liberalism might have helped?

Socialism is one of the biggest poitical movements in the world, and has been ignored.

That's fair enough, if you want to resrict your poll.

But why not restrict it by removing the option of liberal? or conservative? or moderate (whatever that means)
 

Bystander

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I've said quite clearly that there is not an option for "socialist" or even "leftist".
A quick google on the difference between socialism and liberalism might have helped?
Socialism is one of the biggest poitical movements in the world, and has been ignored.
That's fair enough, if you want to resrict your poll.
But why not restrict it by removing the option of liberal? or conservative? or moderate (whatever that means)
SG2k's poll, SG2k's choices. He might not really care what distinctions socialists and liberals and leftists wish to draw amongst themselves. What you insist is a "movement" might be seen by others as an attitude.
 
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Well, if the pollster choses to make their own distinctions, whats the point of the poll?

What "others might see" is irrelevent, if the purpose of the poll is to find what someone's views are! You may as well not ask them?

A loaded poll is a flawed poll. The joint-second most popular answer (at the moment) is none of the above. So the pollster has no idea where these people stand!

Even your post shows a basic misunderstanding, "distinctions amongst themselves". That's a very miopic wrong headed view of things.


"What you insist is a "movement" might be seen by others as an attitude."
They are words that add no meaning to the debate.


Why is conservative an option?


When did you stop beating your wife?
 
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I think even "moderate" is too vague. I see a lot of "both sides are just as bad" false equivalences on PF where a poster pretending to be a rational observer disgusted with both "extremes" is very much choosing a side. Reading their posts is a much more accurate way of labeling them than just asking them.
 

Bystander

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Well, if the pollster choses to make their own distinctions, whats the point of the poll?
SG2k will or will not clarify that as he sees fit. There is no requirement that he "make" his findings conform to your political views or purposes.
What "others might see" is irrelevent, if the purpose of the poll is to find what someone's views are! You may as well not ask them?
He's not asking you to tell him what your views are. He's asking you to tell him what you want him to believe are your views.
A loaded poll is a flawed poll. The joint-second most popular answer (at the moment) is none of the above. So the pollster has no idea where these people stand!
"None of the above." He now knows how many PF members wish to "pose" as special cases, "critical thinkers," or, "rugged individualists." (Yes, I am among that group.) Or, to address your primary concern, "What's in it for you?" Nothing.
"What you insist is a "movement" might be seen by others as an attitude."
They are words that add no meaning to the debate.
Socialism is one of the biggest poitical movements in the world, and has been ignored.
You call it a movement. I call it an attitude. SG2k hasn't called it anything for purposes of the poll.
Why is conservative an option?
"Conservative" is offered as an alternative to "liberal."
When did you stop beating your wife?
I haven't.
 
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If you are stating whether I have an agenda, yes, I have an agenda -- to get a snapshot of the political beliefs/philosophies/tendencies/voting preferences of the participants of PF. I suppose my real interest is the political alignments of those who work in the STEM field overall, but I acknowledge that the participants of PF are not necessarily a representative sample of those who work in the field. This poll is purely for my own curiosity (and hopefully the curiosity of others on PF), and one shouldn't read any more into this than any other poll conducted here.

You mention about the paucity of choices -- keep in mind the following:

(1) I'm not a professional pollster, not am I an expert in political science, sociology, or psychology. Even though I'm trained in statistics, many statistics graduates are not especially well-trained in the development of polls (including those about political preferences). So I presented this poll in a scale that seems to be the most intuitive (to me) about how to ask about political preferences (on the left-right spectrum). If there are ways that I could present these polls in a manner that you, Vanadium or William White, feel would better capture the political preferences, then please, suggest them to me.

(2) Also, PF has only a limited capacity in terms of the # of poll options. Keep that in mind when criticizing me about the way the poll is designed.
As PF polls go, I feel very neutral about yours. My only 2 cents in this thread was that I thought Russ' attitude was eccentric. He objected to that, which required me to mention some things that might be wrong with polls. If there is any overlap between what I mentioned might be wrong with a poll and your poll, it is purely coincidental. I wasn't criticizing your poll. But, since you laid out your thoughts, my reaction would be to say you seem have things in perspective.
 

russ_watters

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...btw, I am skeptical of your claim that Republican policies actually produce better scientific results on key parts of the issues you raise, to the extent that these policies are actually Republican issues as opposed to issues with bipartisan support, but that's a separate argument...
I can answer that and if it turns into a stand-alone conversation, we can just split it.

The miracle that is fracking caught most people by surprise, including me -- and I was trying to pay attention and still missed it! As of 2013, in absolute terms, carbon emissions by the US are down 9% from their peak in 2005.
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/indicators/ghg/us-ghg-emissions.html

This drop is mosty due to fracking for natural gas. Last month, for the first time ever, natural gas supplanted coal as the leading source of electricity in the US:
http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2015/07/13/natural-gas-surpasses-coal-as-biggest-us-electricity-source

Here's the electrical generation history since 2005:
http://www.eia.gov/electricity/data/browser/#/topic/0?agg=2,0,1&fuel=vvg&geo=g&sec=g&linechart=ELEC.GEN.ALL-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.COW-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.NG-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.NUC-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.HYC-US-99.M&columnchart=ELEC.GEN.ALL-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.COW-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.NG-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.NUC-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.HYC-US-99.M&map=ELEC.GEN.ALL-US-99.M&freq=M&start=200401&end=201504&ctype=linechart&ltype=pin&rtype=s&maptype=0&rse=0&pin=
ElectricityGeneration.jpg


Here's the recent US and others' carbon emission history:
emissions-by-country.png

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/11/01/global-carbon-emissions-grew-more-slowly-in-2012-will-they-ever-decline/

About the best that could be said about the current administration is that they didn't see fracking coming and as a result hasn't been able to stand in the way:
In announcing the new rules, Interior Secretary Sally Jewell said current well-drilling regulations are more than 30 years old, "and they simply have not kept pace with the technical complexities of today's hydraulic fracturing operations."
That was only a few months ago.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/20/obama-interior-department-fracking-rules-sally-jewell/25101133/

To Obama's credit, I suppose, he didn't try to ban fracking - I'm not sure he even could, but he could have tried - and he got blasted by environmentalists for not trying:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-ruffalo/stop-fracking_b_3786370.html

The most damning part of this is that "environmentalists" have actually flip-flopped their position on natural gas, because of fracking. Prior to the rise of fracking, they said that natural gas would be a "bridge" to a carbon free economy because it would supplant coal and thus greatly reduce carbon emissions. That's absolutely true, but now that it actually happened, they have started arguing the opposite -- a wrong, anti-science stance:
The national green lobbies initially welcomed shale gas. In 2009, for example, Robert Kennedy Jr., head of the Waterkeeper Alliance, called it “an obvious bridge fuel to the ‘new’ energy economy.” Local environmental activists were not as enthusiastic, arguing that fracking contaminates drinking water and causes other forms of pollution. After a while, some of the national lobbies began to come around to the locals’ side. In the words of the journalist Matt Ridley, “it became apparent that shale gas was a competitive threat to renewable energy.” Josh Fox, director of the anti–natural gas documentary Gasland, put it bluntly on Kennedy’s radio show: “What’s really happening here is not a battle between natural gas and coal. What’s happening here is a battle between another dirty fossil fuel and renewable energy.”
http://reason.com/archives/2011/07/22/natural-gas-flip-flop
Renewables have been rising and show no signs (yet) of starting to level-off, but solar is still well under 1% and wind just under 5% (up from 1% in 2007), whereas natural gas is up from about 21% to 30%. It appears to me that having a good solution isn't good enough: it has to be their solution.

As techtonic of a shift fracking has been, it's nothing compared to what nuclear power could have been and the damage caused by "environmentalists'" opposition to nuclear power. How many nuclear plants did "environmentalists" prevent from being built in the US since 1980 due to their activism? Fifty? A hundred? Even one nuclear reactor blocked by "environmentalism", operating for 5 years, would have displaced more carbon dioxide than all of the solar power ever implemented in the US, combined. Three nuclear reactors, if operating since 1985, would have saved more carbon than all of the solar and wind power in the US ever has. Obama tried very hard to support solar power and despite all the hype over the annual triple-digit increases in output, it has amounted to almost nothing altogether. Natural gas and nuclear have done vastly more and nuclear could have done vastly more-er had "environmentalists" just stayed out of the way.
 

russ_watters

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I vote for the party that best, or most, represents my views.
As everyone should.
What does not happen is that I am told what my views are, and if I disagree it is my fault and not the polls.

So no, I do not vote liberal because somebody tells me I am a liberal.
Who would do that? Who is suggesting that?
The bias is because it ignores one of the largest political movements in the world.
Note, the OP clarified he's from Canada and the poll represents his view of the spectrum based on that. Yes, that makes it a Canadian/North American bias. If that prevents you from adapting to answer it, so be it. However, it has been explained that "very liberal" in the US/Canada is synonomous with the middle to far left end of the spectrum, representing a mild form of socialism. If that's not close enough for you, so be it. Socialism isn't very big in the US/Canada, so yes, that's the bias.
But why not restrict it by removing the option of liberal? or conservative? or moderate (whatever that means)
Clearly it would have been more universal to just say "left, right and center". I don't think that's a very big flaw since the definition is easily explained (in NA, left=liberal) and people should be able to get over it, but clearly it really upsets some people that their box isn't well represented.
 
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russ_watters

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...but everything you said about polls seems to add up to the notion that all polls are perfectly above board. That is: you contradicted every reservation anyone posted about polls.
That is an ridiculously broad statement considering the limited nature of this disucssion (and, of course, considering that I pointed out the flaw in your suggested poll), but please note that I suggested an improvement to the OP's poll in my second post in the thread:
Russ said:
If we just clarify that these are USA centric definitions and just use "left" and "right" instead, does that help?
I truly find this all very sad. If people won't make an effort to answer the questions of others about their positions, gaining common ground/understanding becomes impossible.
 

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