Where does the charge on tankers come from?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the source of static electricity on tanker trucks, particularly focusing on whether the charge originates primarily from the tires or from the air moving over the truck's surface. Participants explore the mechanisms of charge generation, comparing the situation of trucks to that of airplanes and considering various factors that may influence the accumulation of charge.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that static electricity is generated by the tires and the air moving over the truck's body and tank.
  • There is a question about which factor dominates the charge: the tires or the moving air.
  • One participant notes that the charge from the air depends on velocity, temperature, and humidity, while the charge from the tires depends on their material composition and the road surface.
  • Another participant speculates that the tires could account for a significant portion of the charge, possibly up to 99%, while suggesting that the air's contribution might be negligible.
  • Some participants argue that in airplanes, the primary cause of static charge is the dry air rubbing against the aircraft's skin, rather than the tires, which are not dominant in accumulating charge.
  • A participant proposes a comparison to Van de Graaff generators, suggesting that while tires carry some charge, the interaction with air and dust may play a larger role in charge accumulation.
  • There is a mention of personal experiences with static electricity, indicating that friction from shoes on the floor can also generate charge, similar to the friction between tires and the road.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the dominant source of charge on tanker trucks, with no consensus reached. Some believe the tires are the primary source, while others argue that the moving air plays a more significant role. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the relative contributions of these factors.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge various factors that may influence static charge generation, such as environmental conditions and material properties, but do not resolve the complexities involved in determining the dominant source of charge.

pixel01
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As you know some trucks (tankers) always have a chain or wire underneath to discharge electricity. My question is where has the charge come from?
 
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Static electricity is generated by the tires and the air moving over the surface of the trucks body and tank.
 
PaulS1950 said:
Static electricity is generated by the tires and the air moving over the surface of the trucks body and tank.

Thanks,
So what dominates the charge: the tires or the moving air?
I myself sometimes create sparks when touching the door knob. Quite strong. No air moving, so maybe it's only the tires?
 
The amount of charge of the air depends on the velocity, temperature and humidity and the amount of charge developed by the tires depends on the materials involved. (the composition of the tires and road surface.
 
PaulS1950 said:
The amount of charge of the air depends on the velocity, temperature and humidity and the amount of charge developed by the tires depends on the materials involved. (the composition of the tires and road surface.

But we don't know what is the dominant. Possibly that the tires can make up 99% of the charge, and we can neglect the air. Say, the airplane, it fly very fast and I do not know if if has problem with charge caused by the moving air.
 
pixel01 said:
But we don't know what is the dominant. Possibly that the tires can make up 99% of the charge, and we can neglect the air. Say, the airplane, it fly very fast and I do not know if if has problem with charge caused by the moving air.
Google on airplane static discharge. It's not the tires that is dominant in accumulating charge in airplanes.
 
turbo-1 said:
Google on airplane static discharge. It's not the tires that is dominant in accumulating charge in airplanes.

Sure that the tires do not dominate the charge in airplanes. They taxi very slowly and just some km on runway.
 
I would start with Van de Graaff Generators, and work up to trucks. The principle is the same, and while the tires carry some charge, it's hardly a belt with combs. Imagine a volcanic eruption of a stratovolcano: The small particles cause large charges to build in the plume, hence SERIOUS air-air lightning.

Consider the road vs. dry cool air, striking the (essentually) hollow metal box, that is most of a truck: that is a LOT of charge being exchanged, compared to rotating tires which would tend to discharge on their own more than simply carry the charge to the truck's body.

EDIT: Hmmmm... then again, truck tired are steel belted... I wonder what effect that has. Can the tires act a bit like capacitors? Even then collision with air and dust (pollen, etc) would be a greater factor.
 
pixel01 said:
Sure that the tires do not dominate the charge in airplanes. They taxi very slowly and just some km on runway.
No. The primary cause is static charge resulting from the dry air rubbing on the skin of the airplane. Did you google on "airplane static discharge"? It would help settle the needless speculation.
 
  • #10
turbo-1 said:
No. The primary cause is static charge resulting from the dry air rubbing on the skin of the airplane. Did you google on "airplane static discharge"? It would help settle the needless speculation.

I have not googled, but the 2 cases are quite different. Airplanes fly very fast, the friction caused by moving air is big. But the truck moves much slower and the tires always have friction with the surface of the road. My speculation is about the truck.
 
  • #11
pixel01 said:
I have not googled, but the 2 cases are quite different. Airplanes fly very fast, the friction caused by moving air is big. But the truck moves much slower and the tires always have friction with the surface of the road.

*Faceplam*
 
  • #12
Frame Dragger said:
*Faceplam*

?

I guess you all have experienced electric shocks (sometimes, not gentle) while walking in a supermarket and unattentively touch the trolley or somethings. That's all for friction of the shoes and the floor, not the air moving.
So in the case of trucks, I am not sure if the tires are the dominant or just moving air.
I thought it's only because of the air.
 

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