Gravity: Conservative or Non-Conservative?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the nature of gravity as a conservative force, particularly when considering moving sources of gravity. It is established that gravity is typically conservative, but when observed from a moving reference frame, such as a balloon ascending at constant speed, the gravitational field can appear non-conservative due to time-dependent potential. The key conclusion is that for a force to be classified as conservative, the potential must be independent of time; otherwise, it is non-conservative. The conversation emphasizes the importance of analyzing forces without attributing them to a source.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of conservative and non-conservative forces
  • Familiarity with gravitational potential energy concepts
  • Basic knowledge of reference frames in physics
  • Comprehension of Newton's second law (F=ma)
NEXT STEPS
  • Explore the implications of time-dependent potentials in physics
  • Study the effects of different reference frames on force perception
  • Investigate the mathematical definitions of conservative forces
  • Learn about gravitational fields in non-inertial reference frames
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, students of mechanics, and anyone interested in the fundamental principles of force and motion, particularly in relation to gravity and reference frames.

Amin2014
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We generally take the force of gravity to be conservative, but what if the source of gravity is moving through space? Then the force would only be conservative relative to the source, correct?

As another example, consider someone in a balloon ascending with constant speed relative to earth. This person takes the balloon as his reference frame. For him a fixed point in space would be one that is fixed relative to him. If he chooses one such point, he will notice that the gravitational field at this "fixed" point is subject to change with time. Could we say gravity is non-conservative relative to this observer?

Lastly, when we say a force field is conservative, are we saying that it is conservative "relative to the source"?
 
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Amin2014 said:
We generally take the force of gravity to be conservative, but what if the source of gravity is moving through space? Then the force would only be conservative relative to the source, correct?

As another example, consider someone in a balloon ascending with constant speed relative to earth. This person takes the balloon as his reference frame. For him a fixed point in space would be one that is fixed relative to him. If he chooses one such point, he will notice that the gravitational field at this "fixed" point is subject to change with time. Could we say gravity is non-conservative relative to this observer?
For a force to be conservative, the potential has to be independent of time - and in both these cases the potential is not. You're better off thinking of terms of time dependency of the potential; if there is any, than the force is not conservative.

Lastly, when we say a force field is conservative, are we saying that it is conservative "relative to the source"?
Try not to think in terms of the "source" of a force. ##F=ma## defines a force in terms of its effect on the mass upon which it is acting; there's no source involved in the description.
 

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