Why America won the second world war

[Anttech]

How did this get resurected?

I was sent here by smurf from this thread:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=784335#post784335

 

[Manchot]

It took Germany less than 20 years to recover from WWI, in which they were completely eviscerated. It probably would've taken them less time if not for the worldwide depression in that time span. You see, the thing about fascist countries is that though they are terrible places to live, they tend to have excellent economies. At the same time, they manage to stir up feelings of nationalism to get peoples' spirits up. Therefore, they can rebound from war relatively quickly. Obviously, there's also a chance that they wouldn't have rebounded quickly, but why take the risk? What compelling reason would we have to give the aggressors of a war the benefit of the doubt? Should we also throw convicted murderers back on the street without any prison time, simply because they might not kill again?

Actually, this is related to another huge problem with not finishing the war: the justice issue. Do you not think that the people responsible for the Holocaust should have been held responsible for their actions? What about the rape of Nanking? Or the murder of 2500 people through the unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor? Should Hitler himself have gone scot-free? (By the way, that would've happened if we had just stopped attacking Germany.)

 

[Smurf]

After world war two Russia was easily the most powerfull state on the continent, and dominated Europe. It would never have let Germany get back to a power strong enough to rival it. Provided the USA follows the same course it did historically, neither would they.

So, in conclusion, even if the Germans had negotiated a peacefull end tot eh war and even kept their original borders they would still be caught between the cold war, a few years earlier.

Also, keep in mind that nearing the end the Nazi party was losing confidence in Hitler. If Hitler had negotiated peace he could very well have been forced out of office (and probably executed), not making democracy impossible in Germany.

 

[Smurf]

It took Germany less than 20 years to recover from WWI, in which they were completely eviscerated. It probably would've taken them less time if not for the worldwide depression in that time span.

1. Actually if not for the depression I would argue it never would have happened at all. The weimer republic was the german people's first experience with democracy. When their economy fell to shambles they blamed it on democracy, allowing someone like Hitler to take control in the first place. Hitler was the one that brought Germany to the state of strength and aggression it was in for WW2.

2. Germany was never actually invaded in WW1. They never had any of their territory bombed or occupied. German civilians, while many died of Famine, did not know the horrors of their new weapons. It was fought entirely on, above and off the coast of foreign land.

In World War Two, I need only say one word: Dresden, and you know it wasn't the same. But even more significant is the deaths. The deaths from WW1, while huge, pale compared to WW2. In World War one, Germany lost 1,800,000 soldiers, about 500,000 civilians. In WW2: 4,000,000 military, 2,350,000 civilian. If you're wondering about the ratio, that's 81 people per 1000.

Also remember their industry was being flattened by British bombers continuously.

So really, there is no comparison to World War One.

 

[Smurf]

Actually, this is related to another huge problem with not finishing the war: the justice issue. Do you not think that the people responsible for the Holocaust should have been held responsible for their actions? What about the rape of Nanking? Or the murder of 2500 people through the unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor? Should Hitler himself have gone scot-free? (By the way, that would've happened if we had just stopped attacking Germany.)

Frankly I consider the entire war crimes thing for the Holocaust one big publicity stunt and I don't see the world being worse off if it hadn't happened.

Here's an article discussing certain effects of the unconditional surrender policy:

http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/10.html

Also, look to earlier parts of this thread. If America had not entered the war at all (unconditional surrender was roosevelt's idea) it could very possibly have prevented a lot of bloodshed.

 

[Astronuc]

A correction on the American fleet losses at Pearl Harbor - five ships were permanently lost.

These were the battleships Arizona, Oklahoma, the old battleship Utah (then used as a target ship), and the destroyers Cassin and Downes; nevertheless, much usable material was salvaged from them, including the two aft main turrets from Arizona. Heavy casualties resulted due to Arizona's magazine exploding and the Oklahoma capsizing. Four ships sunk during the attack were later raised and returned to duty, including the battleships California, West Virginia and Nevada. California and West Virginia had an effective torpedo-defense system which held up remarkably well, despite the weight of fire they had to endure, enabling most of their crews to be saved. Many of the surviving battleships were heavily refitted, allowing them to better cope with Japanese threats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor

Down the road, a major turning point in the conflict between Japan and US was the Battle of Midway, where the Japanese Navy lost 4 fleet carriers - Soryu, Hiryu, Akagi and Kaga.

The loss of four fleet carriers—leaving only Zuikaku and Shokaku—stopped the expansion of the Japanese Empire in the Pacific, and put Japan on the defensive. What made it a turning point for the Japanese Navy was that they lost their dominating force of large numbers of carriers with well-trained pilots, and from this, the Japanese would never recover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway

It would have been difficult for the US to stay on the sidelines during the war as many or most of its principal trading partners were being attacked.

Another factor in the Pacific Theatre was the US submarine force, which IIRC sank more than 4 million tons (or its 54% of this number) of Japanese shipping - both naval and merchant. There is a book, PIG BOATS, by Theodore Roscoe originally re-published by Bantam in 1967, which chronicles a lot of the US submarine warfare in WWII.

See also - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Japanese_Navy_of_World_War_Two
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Japanese_Navy

And don't forget the impact of the Battle of Britain - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain

And an interesting read by a guy named Gene Whitt - http://www.whittsflying.com/Page6.38Learning%20More%20from%20History.htm
http://www.whittsflying.com/Page6.37Learning%20fromHistory.htm#Learning%20from%20History
http://www.whittsflying.com/index.htm

 

[Smurf]

And an interesting read by a guy named Gene Whitt - http://www.whittsflying.com/Page6.38Learning%20More%20from%20History.htm
http://www.whittsflying.com/Page6.37Learning%20fromHistory.htm#Learning%20from%20History
http://www.whittsflying.com/index.htm

Awsome stuff, thanks a load.