News Why angry women will not vote for McCain

[seycyrus]

I said they were based on facts - that he is pretty old and pretty white are facts. Whether the age or the whiteness is a serious enough factor is in the eye of the beholder.
Those are subjective calls, not facts.

Ain't no bias.

You are making credibility calls on the perception of the *facts*. If we go over them one at a time using the same criteria, it is quite plain to see that the*facts* for Obama are just subjective as real as those for McCain.

Obama

 

[seycyrus]

I said they were based on facts - that he is pretty old and pretty white are facts. Whether the age or the whiteness is a serious enough factor is in the eye of the beholder.
Those are subjective calls, not facts.

Ain't no bias.

You are making credibility calls on your perception of the basis for these *facts*. If we go over them one at a time using the same criteria, it is quite plain to see that the*facts* for Obama are just as subjective as those for McCain.

Obama
Angry Black Man - Based on the very real fact of some emotionally charged speeches given by Wright (Doesn't he even identify himself as angry in one of his speeches?) and perhaps others. One might question the legitimacy and/or the strength of the connection between Obama and these statements, but we cannot make the claim that this flaw is not being based on a fact.

Angry Black Wife - Very factually based. If she continues to make statements along the same lines that she made earlier, without modification, it will cost Obama a significant percentage of votes.

Muslim - Okay, this one is stupid.

Age - Certainly based on fact. Obama being young can be directly contrasted to McCain being old. it's a stigma of society that in general, people get older as they age. Are you more or less wiser than you were 20 years ago? :)

Experience - Compared to mcCain, he certainly has at least more quantitative experience. Many would say qualitiative as well. This goes hand in hand with McCain being OLD.

Extremely liberal - Liberal is based on facts. Extremely could be viewed as subjective, but certainly not as subjective as the term "wishy-washy".

Your bias lies in your assignment of legitimacy.

 

[Gokul43201]

You are making credibility calls on the perception of the *facts*.

No, I'm not. I agree that the perceptions exist. I was making the observation that in one case, the perceptions were much more based on facts than in the other case.

If we go over them one at a time using the same criteria, it is quite plain to see that the*facts* for Obama are just subjective as real as those for McCain.

I don't understand that sentence, but sure, we can go over the points and decide which ones are based on facts, and which not.

McCain:
Not very right wing=hard to say...used to be a fact, but not so much recently
Old=fact
White=fact
Pro-life=limited truth, pro-life only in certain circumstances
lobbyist issues=fact
affair with 25-year old millionairess beauty queen after wife was crippled=fact

Obama:
Angry/militant black man=not fact (angry/militant) + fact (black man)
Angry/militant black wife=not fact(angry/militant) + fact (black wife)
muslim=not fact
age/experience=fact
liberalness=disputed (two different studies rank him very differently)

Obama

Nice sig.

 

[Evo]

I absolutely cannot believe how stupid these people on Hillary's blog are. This is how many people vote though, which is really, really scary. They vote on a personal level. Forget all about the trivial fact that this person is going to run our country for the next 4 years.

You'd think these people were voting from Prom Queen.

 

[Gokul43201]

Obama
Angry Black Man - Based on the very real fact of some emotionally charged speeches given by Wright (Doesn't he even identify himself as angry in one of his speeches?) and perhaps others. One might question the legitimacy and/or the strength of the connection between Obama and these statements, but we cannot make the claim that this flaw is not being based on a fact.

That fact is only evidence that Wright is an angry, black man - not Obama.

Angry Black Wife - Very factually based. If she continues to make statements along the same lines that she made earlier, without modification, it will cost Obama a significant percentage of votes.

I must have missed these angry rants from Michelle. Which ones were they?

Muslim - Okay, this one is stupid.

Age - Certainly based on fact. Obama being young can be directly contrasted to McCain being old. it's a stigma of society that in general, people get older as they age. Are you more or less wiser than you were 20 years ago? :)

Depends on whether I'm 25 or 95.

But I agree on both counts.

Experience - Compared to mcCain, he certainly has at least more quantitative experience. Many would say qualitiative as well. This goes hand in hand with McCain being OLD.

I think you may have miswritten that, but the point is undisputed.

Extremely liberal - Liberal is based on facts. Extremely could be viewed as subjective, but certainly not as subjective as the term "wishy-washy".

If by liberal, you mean he is a member of the Democratic party, that is an undisputed fact. If by the word, you mean he is among the leftmost fringe of the party, that is very much in dispute. We are talking here about a very openly religious person who has written and sponsored a greater fraction of his legislation with Republicans than almost every other democrat.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I must have missed these angry rants from Michelle. Which ones were they?

This one gets a lot of play:

For the first time in my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/michelle-obam-1.html"

 

[seycyrus]

That fact is only evidence that Wright is an angry, black man - not Obama.

Well certainly. I tried to point that out. One can watch Obama speak and see that he is not angry. I don't think Russ was saying that Obama is an angry person. His connection to ABM is the flaw.

I must have missed these angry rants from Michelle. Which ones were they?

Ok. I sort of glossed over the *angry* part and replaced it with *not proud of her country for the majority of her life*

If by liberal, you mean he is a member of the Democratic party, that is an undisputed fact. If by the word, you mean he is among the leftmost fringe of the party, that is very much in dispute.

Does he go on the liberal shelf or the conservative shelf?


By my modified count, it seems to be 4-3 more McCain McCain fact than Obama facts. Certainly don't see that *Most* of Obamas are not based on fact.

 

[Gokul43201]

This one gets a lot of play:



http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/michelle-obam-1.html"

I've heard that one, but that may explain that Michelle is proud, or maybe dishonest, or disgruntled, or she just said something stupid. I don't see how this makes her an angry, militant black wife.

 

[seycyrus]

I've heard that one, but that may explain that Michelle is proud, or maybe dishonest, or disgruntled, or she just said something stupid. I don't see how this makes her an angry, militant black wife.

Most people equate pride as an extension of being happy or satisfied with something.

If you apply the converse of her statement (which might be a logical fallacy in the strictest sense) it appears that for the majority of her life, she was unhappy with her country...

Which leads to the dark side, young jedi.

 

[lisab]

Most people equate pride as an extension of being happy or satisfied with something.

If you apply the converse of her statement (which might be a logical fallacy in the strictest sense) it appears that for the majority of her life, she was unhappy with her country...

Which leads to the dark side, young jedi.

She was proud; now (for the first time) she's really proud. And this makes her militant? Quite a stretch. Not very logical.

 

[Gokul43201]

By my modified count, it seems to be 4-3 more McCain McCain fact than Obama facts. Certainly don't see that *Most* of Obamas are not based on fact.

After the points about Obama and Michelle's angry militantism are rewritten so they are actually about Obama's church problem (which is a big issue) and Michelle's statement about her pride (which may also be a big deal, but no worse than Cindy's drug abuse/theft problems), then I admit that the list is more balanced.

 

[seycyrus]

She was proud; now (for the first time) she's really proud. And this makes her militant? Quite a stretch. Not very logical.

Oh c'mon on now. In the one speech she just said "proud", not really proud. In the other, which came later, she said *really proud*.

Regardless, we're talking about the perception of her comments.

Are you on a one woman campaign to change this perception? If so, don't bother with me, I don't think Michelle is an ABW. You're wasting your energy.

 

[lisab]

You first posted,

Angry Black Wife - Very factually based. If she continues to make statements along the same lines that she made earlier, without modification, it will cost Obama a significant percentage of votes.

Now you say,

I don't think Michelle is an ABW.

My one-woman campaign must have worked !

 

[seycyrus]

You first posted,



Now you say,



My one-woman campaign must have worked !

Notice how her second speech was in fact, modified from the first. She must have read my post on PF and time traveled back.