Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

McCain is Aware of and Concerned About the Hope of Americans

  1. Sep 14, 2008 #1

    GCT

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    I have a theory .... all of you are free to chop away at it ....

    I sense that McCain may just win this one and the primary event is attributable to Obama not picking Hilary for the vice presidency. People claim that picking Hilary may have jepoardized his campaign , however , his current state at the moment is probably worse.

    Obama had not taken into account why people were voting for him , there was a sizeable amount of people who were voting for him to support his historic endeavor as they believed that he had a good chance to win as a very decently qualified African American. He drew crowds of college students with his message of hope. Many followed him believing that his message may be genuine. Yes , there are some people out there that favored him because he is an African American with a cause to change history for the better. Many voted for Hilary because she preached the same message of a change in history.

    The message was that of a historic change and this would make reality the hopes of many Americans.

    By not picking Hilary many believed he has placed politics a head of his message , his message of change seems to have been only for African Americans , he displayed very little concern about this same hope within women across the US ; now he is simply a politican and even a chauvinist , all of you have to admit him and Biden together seem to have some sort of a male authoritarian aura about them. It seems to be about the image for Obama.

    McCain made a brilliant pick out of Palin , he basically went over to Palin and asked her " hello young women would you like to be my vice presidential candidate?"

    And by doing so , he revived Obama's message of hope and tangiblized the concerns of many disgruntled former Obama supporters.

    By picking Palin McCain has established to many people that he is aware of and concerned about their hopes.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 16, 2008 #2

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    I said this in another thread: It's a poker game and Obama had to bet first. If he'd been able to predict the type of running mate McCain would pick (and how she's been received), he may have chosen to run with Hillary, which would have prevented McCain from picking Palin.

    I'm not sure about the male chauvenism angle per se, but I do think the Biden pick was all about Obama trying to add an old, white, experienced male to the ticket to counteract his experience and 'uniqueness' issues. The problem is that that goes against the logic of his campaign. Running on being different is all or nothing - you can't have it both ways. McCain, on the other hand, is an old maverick picking a young up-and-coming maverick to run with him - no inherrent contradiction there.

    So now Obama has to both argue that McCain is a crowd-following Washington insider while trying to avoid making that splash back on his own VP pick and try to sell a two-headed logic about how he and Biden fit together. That's a very difficult dance and it is probably why his pick didn't go over nearly as well as peoples' initial instincts expected it to.

    Now all that said, a Hillary pick would have been problematic because really: unless he could anticipate Palin, what would have been the point? You don't need her for liberal women (redundant) no matter how much they screamed before the convention (see: Rush Limbaugh on McCain several months ago) and conservative women hate her. That's why I don't see her ever making it to VP or potus (Obama, on the other hand, may have other chances if he doesn't win this time - but he will have to address his flaws better). She's too devisive, having lots of support where they don't need it and none at all where they need crossover voters. But hey - New York is plenty liberal, so she can be Senator there for the rest of her life without spending another dime on campaigning.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  4. Sep 16, 2008 #3

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Btw, this was a lot of my point in that thread you started in GD, but here's an extension: Being different can be both a benefit and a liability or all liability, but it can't be all benefit. A black man will eventually become President of the US, but it may not happen until one campaigns on not being different, the way Kennedy was able to neutralize the religion issue with his campaign.
     
  5. Sep 16, 2008 #4

    LowlyPion

    User Avatar
    Homework Helper

    It seems the premise of the thread is speculative.

    What actual evidence is there for this?
     
  6. Sep 16, 2008 #5
    It was already stated. He chose Palin as his running mate.

    ??
     
  7. Sep 16, 2008 #6

    LowlyPion

    User Avatar
    Homework Helper

    No doubt he was desperate to change his losing formula of being Bush's chambermaid the past 8 years and left to reap the whirlwind of the disastrous failed policy of financial deregulation, and Bush's foreign adventures in Iraq, but I see little in the Palin pick to suggest it was born of any concern for any Americans that don't belong to a country club.
     
  8. Sep 17, 2008 #7

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    It's tough to know where to being with that drivel ("Bush's chaimbermaid"? C'mon), LP, but take heart: you don't even have to believe the line in the title - the argument works the same if the Palin pick is merely intented to project that image, whether it is true or not. That is, after all, what a political campaign is: trying to get people to buy into a marketing image that the candidate wants to sell, regardless of if it is true.
     
  9. Sep 17, 2008 #8

    LowlyPion

    User Avatar
    Homework Helper

    Your argument then is that it is irrelevant whether McCain actually has concern for Americans outside of Country Clubs, because that is the image that he is trying to sell?

    That it is irrelevant that he has been carrying out Bush's chamber jugs these last 8 years - the menial manservant of Bush's mismanagement and broken policy initiatives because it's all in the name of becoming President by any means?
     
  10. Sep 17, 2008 #9

    LowlyPion

    User Avatar
    Homework Helper

    So just what happened to this version of McCain?:
    http://www.iht.com/articles/2000/02/29/bush.2.t_9.php

    Perhaps the only change that McCain is running on now is the change in himself? He embraces the far right now, where once he stood independent. No maverick, no more.
     
  11. Sep 17, 2008 #10

    BobG

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    I think this hits on why "Executive experience" is preferred and why Obama's change vs experience tilt was working so well. It has nothing to do with experience. It has to do with balancing just enough experience to be credible against not having a long record for your opponent to run against. Senators don't become Presidents because you can look at every vote they ever made and every bill they ever wrote. The record of a governor is harder to attack since their actions depend as much on the legislature of their state as their own actions.

    Hillary is too well known for her advantages to outweigh her disadvantages. (Conservatives hate her).

    The new trend tends to be to rush a candidate into the Presidential race as soon as possible before they accumulate a damning record.
     
  12. Sep 17, 2008 #11

    LowlyPion

    User Avatar
    Homework Helper

    The same tactic used with packing the court with justices favorable to an agenda.
     
  13. Sep 17, 2008 #12
  14. Sep 17, 2008 #13

    GCT

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    A note : FYI the title was intended to be in quotes , I'm not a supporter of McCain. However I'm able to understand why some have been disgruntled with Obama's recent hypocrisy.

    BTW he seems to be gaining in the recent poll.
     
  15. Sep 17, 2008 #14
    Because I live in Arizona, I have seen more hypocracy from McCain. Then again he has had more time to practice.

    He talks big about the military, yet voted against increased funding for Veterans programs.
     
  16. Sep 17, 2008 #15

    LowlyPion

    User Avatar
    Homework Helper

    What hypocrisy? Perhaps you can cite specifics on that?
     
  17. Sep 17, 2008 #16

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Really, it is almost as if you are trying to intentionally sound like you are too emotional to think rationally. Why say things like that? Not only did you not make any arguments in that post, you failed to demonstrate that you grasped any of the previous arguments.
     
  18. Sep 17, 2008 #17

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Yes - I think "executive experience" is better, but the reality is probably just that it works because plays better marketing-wise.
    There is more to it than that. She's a divisive candidate because of her personality.
    Perhaps, but that may depend on how this race turns out...

    I'm a little less cynical than you on this - right now Obama is hammering on McCain's very recent record but I think part of the reason why Obama's momentum is fading is due to that message not playing well. Novelty wears off and long campaigns cause people to eventually look deeper. When they look deeper at Obama they see nothing. When they look deeper at Mccain, they see The Maverick.
     
  19. Sep 17, 2008 #18

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    I got that: you're talking about the image you think he's trying to project, not the image you see.
     
  20. Sep 17, 2008 #19

    LowlyPion

    User Avatar
    Homework Helper

    If you really believe that then you must have a pretty bleak outlook for what will eventually happen with Palin.
     
  21. Sep 18, 2008 #20

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Well that depends on what "eventually" means and what people see when you look deeper.

    Palin scores very high on novelty factor (so her quick drop was more predictable than the big bonus she gave), but her underlying attitudes (if not political positions) are impressive to me and I think impressive to others. We'll see if they can successfully market her based on those attitudes. If they can, she could have a secondary rise.

    Aren't there going to be VP debates? I don't think Biden is a very likeable candidate and we very well could see a repeat of the Kennedy/Nixon debate outcome.
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: McCain is Aware of and Concerned About the Hope of Americans
  1. McCain for Bush ! (Replies: 5)

  2. John McCain (Replies: 12)

  3. McCain Watch (Replies: 19)

Loading...