McCain is Aware of and Concerned About the Hope of Americans

[GCT]

I have a theory ... all of you are free to chop away at it ...

I sense that McCain may just win this one and the primary event is attributable to Obama not picking Hilary for the vice presidency. People claim that picking Hilary may have jepoardized his campaign , however , his current state at the moment is probably worse.

Obama had not taken into account why people were voting for him , there was a sizeable amount of people who were voting for him to support his historic endeavor as they believed that he had a good chance to win as a very decently qualified African American. He drew crowds of college students with his message of hope. Many followed him believing that his message may be genuine. Yes , there are some people out there that favored him because he is an African American with a cause to change history for the better. Many voted for Hilary because she preached the same message of a change in history.

The message was that of a historic change and this would make reality the hopes of many Americans.

By not picking Hilary many believed he has placed politics a head of his message , his message of change seems to have been only for African Americans , he displayed very little concern about this same hope within women across the US ; now he is simply a politican and even a chauvinist , all of you have to admit him and Biden together seem to have some sort of a male authoritarian aura about them. It seems to be about the image for Obama.

McCain made a brilliant pick out of Palin , he basically went over to Palin and asked her " hello young women would you like to be my vice presidential candidate?"

And by doing so , he revived Obama's message of hope and tangiblized the concerns of many disgruntled former Obama supporters.

By picking Palin McCain has established to many people that he is aware of and concerned about their hopes.

 

[russ_watters]

I said this in another thread: It's a poker game and Obama had to bet first. If he'd been able to predict the type of running mate McCain would pick (and how she's been received), he may have chosen to run with Hillary, which would have prevented McCain from picking Palin.

I'm not sure about the male chauvenism angle per se, but I do think the Biden pick was all about Obama trying to add an old, white, experienced male to the ticket to counteract his experience and 'uniqueness' issues. The problem is that that goes against the logic of his campaign. Running on being different is all or nothing - you can't have it both ways. McCain, on the other hand, is an old maverick picking a young up-and-coming maverick to run with him - no inherrent contradiction there.

So now Obama has to both argue that McCain is a crowd-following Washington insider while trying to avoid making that splash back on his own VP pick and try to sell a two-headed logic about how he and Biden fit together. That's a very difficult dance and it is probably why his pick didn't go over nearly as well as peoples' initial instincts expected it to.

Now all that said, a Hillary pick would have been problematic because really: unless he could anticipate Palin, what would have been the point? You don't need her for liberal women (redundant) no matter how much they screamed before the convention (see: Rush Limbaugh on McCain several months ago) and conservative women hate her. That's why I don't see her ever making it to VP or potus (Obama, on the other hand, may have other chances if he doesn't win this time - but he will have to address his flaws better). She's too devisive, having lots of support where they don't need it and none at all where they need crossover voters. But hey - New York is plenty liberal, so she can be Senator there for the rest of her life without spending another dime on campaigning.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm not sure about the male chauvenism angle per se, but I do think the Biden pick was all about Obama trying to add an old, white, experienced male to the ticket to counteract his experience and 'uniqueness' issues. The problem is that that goes against the logic of his campaign. Running on being different is all or nothing - you can't have it both ways.

Btw, this was a lot of my point in that thread you started in GD, but here's an extension: Being different can be both a benefit and a liability or all liability, but it can't be all benefit. A black man will eventually become President of the US, but it may not happen until one campaigns on not being different, the way Kennedy was able to neutralize the religion issue with his campaign.

 

[LowlyPion]

It seems the premise of the thread is speculative.

McCain is Aware of and Concerned About the Hope of Americans

What actual evidence is there for this?

 

[deckart]

It seems the premise of the thread is speculative.



What actual evidence is there for this?

It was already stated. He chose Palin as his running mate.

??

 

[LowlyPion]

It was already stated. He chose Palin as his running mate.

No doubt he was desperate to change his losing formula of being Bush's chambermaid the past 8 years and left to reap the whirlwind of the disastrous failed policy of financial deregulation, and Bush's foreign adventures in Iraq, but I see little in the Palin pick to suggest it was born of any concern for any Americans that don't belong to a country club.

 

[russ_watters]

It's tough to know where to being with that drivel ("Bush's chaimbermaid"? C'mon), LP, but take heart: you don't even have to believe the line in the title - the argument works the same if the Palin pick is merely intented to project that image, whether it is true or not. That is, after all, what a political campaign is: trying to get people to buy into a marketing image that the candidate wants to sell, regardless of if it is true.

 

[LowlyPion]

It's tough to know where to being with that drivel ("Bush's chaimbermaid"? C'mon), LP, but take heart: you don't even have to believe the line in the title - the argument works the same if the Palin pick is merely intented to project that image, whether it is true or not. That is, after all, what a political campaign is: trying to get people to buy into a marketing image that the candidate wants to sell, regardless of if it is true.

Your argument then is that it is irrelevant whether McCain actually has concern for Americans outside of Country Clubs, because that is the image that he is trying to sell?

That it is irrelevant that he has been carrying out Bush's chamber jugs these last 8 years - the menial manservant of Bush's mismanagement and broken policy initiatives because it's all in the name of becoming President by any means?

 

[LowlyPion]

So just what happened to this version of McCain?:

"The political tactics of division and slander are not our values," Mr. McCain said. "They are corrupting influences on religion and politics, and those who practice them in the name of religion or in the name of the Republican Party or in the name of America shame our faith, our party and our country."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2000/02/29/bush.2.t_9.php

Perhaps the only change that McCain is running on now is the change in himself? He embraces the far right now, where once he stood independent. No maverick, no more.

 

[BobG]

I said this in another thread: It's a poker game and Obama had to bet first. If he'd been able to predict the type of running mate McCain would pick (and how she's been received), he may have chosen to run with Hillary, which would have prevented McCain from picking Palin. ...

...
Now all that said, a Hillary pick would have been problematic because really: unless he could anticipate Palin, what would have been the point? You don't need her for liberal women (redundant) no matter how much they screamed before the convention (see: Rush Limbaugh on McCain several months ago) and conservative women hate her. That's why I don't see her ever making it to VP or potus (Obama, on the other hand, may have other chances if he doesn't win this time - but he will have to address his flaws better). She's too devisive, having lots of support where they don't need it and none at all where they need crossover voters. But hey - New York is plenty liberal, so she can be Senator there for the rest of her life without spending another dime on campaigning.

I think this hits on why "Executive experience" is preferred and why Obama's change vs experience tilt was working so well. It has nothing to do with experience. It has to do with balancing just enough experience to be credible against not having a long record for your opponent to run against. Senators don't become Presidents because you can look at every vote they ever made and every bill they ever wrote. The record of a governor is harder to attack since their actions depend as much on the legislature of their state as their own actions.

Hillary is too well known for her advantages to outweigh her disadvantages. (Conservatives hate her).

The new trend tends to be to rush a candidate into the Presidential race as soon as possible before they accumulate a damning record.

 

[LowlyPion]

I think this hits on why "Executive experience" is preferred and why Obama's change vs experience tilt was working so well. It has nothing to do with experience. It has to do with balancing just enough experience to be credible against not having a long record for your opponent to run against. Senators don't become Presidents because you can look at every vote they ever made and every bill they ever wrote. The record of a governor is harder to attack since their actions depend as much on the legislature of their state as their own actions.

Hillary is too well known for her advantages to outweigh her disadvantages. (Conservatives hate her).

The new trend tends to be to rush a candidate into the Presidential race as soon as possible before they accumulate a damning record.

The same tactic used with packing the court with justices favorable to an agenda.

 

[edward]

As far as the topic of this tread goes McCain is only concerned about McCain. In all of his years in the Senate he has done nothing for the people of Arizona.

The wealthy on the other hand have been the exception.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/22/u...1208869803-DpfhM14ANcwDaZs2Q/IQfQ&oref=slogin

 

[GCT]

A note : FYI the title was intended to be in quotes , I'm not a supporter of McCain. However I'm able to understand why some have been disgruntled with Obama's recent hypocrisy.

BTW he seems to be gaining in the recent poll.

 

[edward]

A note : FYI the title was intended to be in quotes , I'm not a supporter of McCain. However I'm able to understand why some have been disgruntled with Obama's recent hypocrisy.

BTW he seems to be gaining in the recent poll.

Because I live in Arizona, I have seen more hypocracy from McCain. Then again he has had more time to practice.

He talks big about the military, yet voted against increased funding for Veterans programs.

 

[LowlyPion]

However I'm able to understand why some have been disgruntled with Obama's recent hypocrisy.

What hypocrisy? Perhaps you can cite specifics on that?

 

[russ_watters]

Bush's chamber jugs

Really, it is almost as if you are trying to intentionally sound like you are too emotional to think rationally. Why say things like that? Not only did you not make any arguments in that post, you failed to demonstrate that you grasped any of the previous arguments.

 

[russ_watters]

I think this hits on why "Executive experience" is preferred and why Obama's change vs experience tilt was working so well. It has nothing to do with experience. It has to do with balancing just enough experience to be credible against not having a long record for your opponent to run against. Senators don't become Presidents because you can look at every vote they ever made and every bill they ever wrote. The record of a governor is harder to attack since their actions depend as much on the legislature of their state as their own actions.

Yes - I think "executive experience" is better, but the reality is probably just that it works because plays better marketing-wise.

Hillary is too well known for her advantages to outweigh her disadvantages. (Conservatives hate her).

There is more to it than that. She's a divisive candidate because of her personality.

The new trend tends to be to rush a candidate into the Presidential race as soon as possible before they accumulate a damning record.

Perhaps, but that may depend on how this race turns out...

I'm a little less cynical than you on this - right now Obama is hammering on McCain's very recent record but I think part of the reason why Obama's momentum is fading is due to that message not playing well. Novelty wears off and long campaigns cause people to eventually look deeper. When they look deeper at Obama they see nothing. When they look deeper at Mccain, they see The Maverick.

 

[russ_watters]

A note : FYI the title was intended to be in quotes , I'm not a supporter of McCain. However I'm able to understand why some have been disgruntled with Obama's recent hypocrisy.

I got that: you're talking about the image you think he's trying to project, not the image you see.

 

[LowlyPion]

Novelty wears off and long campaigns cause people to eventually look deeper.

If you really believe that then you must have a pretty bleak outlook for what will eventually happen with Palin.

 

[russ_watters]

If you really believe that then you must have a pretty bleak outlook for what will eventually happen with Palin.

Well that depends on what "eventually" means and what people see when you look deeper.

Palin scores very high on novelty factor (so her quick drop was more predictable than the big bonus she gave), but her underlying attitudes (if not political positions) are impressive to me and I think impressive to others. We'll see if they can successfully market her based on those attitudes. If they can, she could have a secondary rise.

Aren't there going to be VP debates? I don't think Biden is a very likeable candidate and we very well could see a repeat of the Kennedy/Nixon debate outcome.

 

[LowlyPion]

Aren't there going to be VP debates? I don't think Biden is a very likeable candidate and we very well could see a repeat of the Kennedy/Nixon debate outcome.

You seem to be forgetting that she is not the top of the ticket. (Just like she did today.) And if there is anyone in the race that is from the Kennedy mold it is Obama.

The recent senility that McCain has been exhibiting, not knowing the President can't fire the head of the SEC, thinking the fundamentals of the economy are good as the Government must take on billions in debt to backstop the ruinous dividends of their deregulation, his callous failure to recognize Zapatero as President of Spain and Spain as actually being in Europe not South America - no there will be no Kennedy/Nixon debates this go round, if only because McCain doesn't even add up to a good half Nixon.

Palin scores very high on novelty factor ...

The correct word there is "scored", as in once scored high in novelty factor.
Palin with her stonewalling on her own ethical probe looks to be on the fast path to being a footnote.

 

[WheelsRCool]

Palin with her stonewalling on her own ethical probe looks to be on the fast path to being a footnote.

That is just a whole bunch of nothing. And "fundamentally," the economy seems to be plenty sound. The financial system is what is reeling. Although not that the economy is doing well either. But unless we start seeing double-digit unemployment rates, double-digit inflation, etc...

 

[LowlyPion]

That is just a whole bunch of nothing. And "fundamentally," the economy seems to be plenty sound. The financial system is what is reeling. Although not that the economy is doing well either. But unless we start seeing double-digit unemployment rates, double-digit inflation, etc...

Yeah so sound that the US is writing a trillion dollar check to pay for the hang over that comes from deregulation that they have been embracing these past 8 years. So sound and fundamental that McCain is doing a philosophical flip flop from deregulator to regulator, a position that up until this week he embraced since he first got a taste of the Charles Keating money back in the late 80's.

John McCain has been front and center in financial crises over the last 20 years siding with those that have been the ones that CAUSED the problems, from savings and loan, to prime rate, to mortgage melt down.

And now we are to believe his gallows-eve conversion?

 

[Evo]

Aren't there going to be VP debates? I don't think Biden is a very likeable candidate and we very well could see a repeat of the Kennedy/Nixon debate outcome.

One VP debate.

There will be a Vice-Presidential Debate held at Washington University in St louis On Oct 2nd, 2008 at 8pm.

http://debate.wustl.edu/media.php

 

[LowlyPion]

More concern for the American People coming from McCain.

Now McCain is blaming Obama for the mess? Trying to claim that he has been drinking at the lobbyist trough? That Obama has advisers on his staff that are lobbyists? After his long time embrace of Phil Graham, his until recently Chief Economic Adviser, the champion of degregulation, registered lobbyist even while serving McCain? After McCain accepting how much money from banking lobbyists over the years for services rendered? Such total unmitigated chutzpah.

And there McCain stands embracing regulation solutions, while at the very moment handing the American public a trillion dollar bill that can be directly attributed to his life-long embrace of deregulation?

McCain is apparently dissembling out of desperation that the public is on to his senility, and his ever so much more obvious incompetence in embracing what has now shown itself to be a failed philosophy of deregulation and trickle-down economics.

Yesterday was very bad day for the McCain campaign. Today it's looking like a death spiral.

 

[LowlyPion]

George Will blasts McCain

Under the pressure of the financial crisis, one presidential candidate is behaving like a flustered rookie playing in a league too high. It is not Barack Obama.

Channeling his inner Queen of Hearts, John McCain furiously, and apparently without even looking around at facts, said Chris Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, should be decapitated. This childish reflex provoked the Wall Street Journal to editorialize that "McCain untethered" -- disconnected from knowledge and principle -- had made a "false and deeply unfair" attack on Cox that was "unpresidential" and demonstrated that McCain "doesn't understand what's happening on Wall Street any better than Barack Obama does."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/22/AR2008092202583.html

 

[LowlyPion]

Here is how the McCain Campaign is gearing up grass-root support ... or at least the appearance of it.

I ghost-wrote letters to the editor for the McCain campaign

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/24/mccain_letters/index.html

So if you get tired of writing posts on PF ... you can pretend to be a fictitious concerned citizen in a battleground state whose letters they can use to place by the dozens in letters to the editor.

Typical Karl Rove hijinks. (Apparently Mean Sarah is cut from the same bolt of cloth as Rove.) Calling Reverend Muthee.

 

[LowlyPion]

Apparently McCain is just concerned about being elected.

It seems that he has organized a revolt by some house Republicans to throw the deal up in the air.

Apparently the White House and Congress were getting too much done, so McCain parachuted into the middle to get some tactical support from some of his friends, notably John Boehner, to give him a crisis to pretend to manage. It looks like at this point he is shooting himself in the foot, to stir things up.

The man looks to me positively out of control. Forget the Palin choice. He's looking dangerous all on his own.

 

[LowlyPion]

McCain is such a troll.

He comes out just now and acts like he is the one that has been "improving" the Economic Recovery Plan, yet what he has shown is a total lack of leadership in disrupting the deliberations in the first place and a total inability to influence his own party to carry them in line to vote for any plan.

I think the country needs a change all right. No more Bush. No more McCain. Send Palin back to keep an eye on Russia.

 

[GCT]

Obama is a hypocrite however I still favor him over McCain with all of his lies and despicable tactics.

 

[Evo]

House vote against bailout wounds McCain

Quite a blunder, IMO.

Analysis: House vote against bailout wounds McCain

The house always wins, gamblers are warned, and the U.S. House made John McCain pay Monday for his politically risky, high-profile involvement in a financial rescue plan that came crashing down, mainly at the hands of his fellow Republicans.

As recently as Monday morning, only minutes before the House's stunning vote, McCain suggested that his call for a White House summit meeting Thursday, and his visit with unhappy House Republicans that preceded it, had helped clear the way for the bill's passage.

On NBC's "Meet the Press" Sunday, top adviser Steve Schmidt said McCain managed "to help bring all of the parties to the table, including the House Republicans, whose votes were needed to pass this."

On Monday, only 65 of the House's 199 Republicans went along.

"This is something that all of us will swallow hard and go forward with," he (McCain) said Sunday.

He turned out to be wrong on Monday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_bailout_4;_ylt=AmOq4oCPIWgq1ypWQj5b9M3Za7gF

 

[NeoDevin]

Obama is a hypocrite

Care to elaborate on this point?

 

[Art]

Quite a blunder, IMO.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_bailout_4;_ylt=AmOq4oCPIWgq1ypWQj5b9M3Za7gF

It seems his 'dash to Washington' has backfired spectacularly! Far from showing off his leadership skills he has shown both his leadership and communication skills, even within his own party, are non-existent.

 

[Evo]

It seems his 'dash to Washington' has backfired spectacularly! Far from showing off his leadership skills he has shown both his leadership and communication skills, even within his own party, are non-existent.

Amazing that his ego left him that out of touch with reality. He had no clue what these people were planning or thinking.

 

[Astronuc]

I thought this was interesting.

For McCain and Team, a Host of Ties to Gambling
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/us/politics/28gambling-web.html

Senator John McCain was on a roll. In a room reserved for high-stakes gamblers at the Foxwoods Resort Casino in Connecticut, he tossed $100 chips around a hot craps table. When the marathon session ended around 2:30 a.m., the Arizona senator and his entourage emerged with thousands of dollars in winnings.

A lifelong gambler, Mr. McCain takes risks, both on and off the craps table. He was throwing dice that night not long after his failed 2000 presidential bid, in which he was skewered by the Republican Party’s evangelical base, opponents of gambling. Mr. McCain was betting at a casino he oversaw as a member of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, and he was doing so with the lobbyist who represents that casino, according to three associates of Mr. McCain.

The visit had been arranged by the lobbyist, Scott Reed, who works for the Mashantucket Pequot, a tribe that has contributed heavily to Mr. McCain’s campaigns and built Foxwoods into the world’s second-largest casino. Joining them was Rick Davis, Mr. McCain’s current campaign manager. Their night of good fortune epitomized not just Mr. McCain’s affection for gambling, but also the close relationship he has built with the gambling industry and its lobbyists during his 25-year career in Congress.

. . . .

Hmmmm. I have to wonder how much gets passed under the table.

I'm sure the religous right can look the other way now that they have Palin.