Lyuokdea
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This is working on being a hideously long post, I apologize in advance.
First, this is such a sad story, I don’t know if I can comment on the given question of the thread, but to say that there are so many combinations that I’ve seen happen in my life, you can never blame something like this on either the kid or the parent without knowing the situation better, as only Evo does. I’ve seen great parents raise horrible children, and I’ve seen horrible parents have great children.
The most personal story I have is a friend of mine who went to our church. Her mom was an alcoholic and never took care of her. When she was 13 her Mom got pregnant from a guy on a one night stand and had another kid, who she also didn’t take care of, leaving it to my friend to care for a baby while going through high school. She somehow managed it all, held a solid GPA, in high school, and when the mom found a boy friend who had some sense of responsibility, was able to find a job to work while still caring for the kid and being in school, and also volunteering at a hospital once a week. She was given the opportunity to go to a couple good colleges as an undergrad, with good grants, but decided to stay at the local college so that she could continue to watch her brother for the next four years until he is old enough to better fend for himself. It’s amazing what’s she’s gone through and how well she’s been able to work through it and still be a really good person herself.
Here are a couple:
1. We wouldn't be living in a society where millions lose all rights and are killed off mercilessly because of their decision to put a substance in their OWN body.
2. We wouldn't be living in a society where individuals are meaningless compared to the "society" whatever that is. That sort of rights abuse only leads to a slippery slope. We should put to death anybody who speeds, because they put everybody at a greater risk of dying in a car accident. We could find a way to prove how anyone individuals life is a threat to society, and there is no reason not to eliminate that individual.
3. A person who puts a substance into their own body is doing nothing wrong. It is possible that drugs had a role in this situation, but it is also possible that an emotional breakdown, a hatred of her mother, or any other number of circumstances led to the death. Perhaps her mother had attacked her first upon learning about the drugs and it actually was self defense, we don't know yet.
However, that doesn't even matter. The only relevant question is, how am I violating anybody else's right to exist by putting a substance into my body? Violent crime should most definitely be illegal, you are violating another's right to exist, but drugs involve nobody but the willing user, people have a right to do with their life as they please.
In fact, my (some would view as equally extreme) solution is to legalize drugs, or at the very least, end the war on drugs. Why are drug users responsible for violent crime? In some cases you could say that drugs + usually preexisting mental conditions led to a crime, but those situations are very rare compared to the thousands of cases where drug users commit crimes for one reason, money. Drugs are made extremely expensive by the war on drugs, and thus anybody who wants to use drugs must go to extreme circumstances to get them. In Chicago there was a situation a couple weeks ago where a guy was beaten to death over a pack of Cigarettes, I don't think you saw this behavior when cigarettes were $1 a pack, but now when they are $8 a pack and rising, this type of behavior is on the rise, I wonder why?
Furthermore, Drug Legalization will not increase drug use for a couple reasons. First off, teaching that drugs are bad works for the vast majority of people. Other people will always want to try something that is dangerous and rebelious, and having illegal drugs only fuels that fire, while doing little to prevent the actual use. Furthermore, many addictions to drugs are caused by spikes in drug usage which result from users using drugs that are of different purity. This is also the cause of most overdose deaths. The crack you by from the dealer one day, might have a purity level 2 or 3 times what you bought from him yesterday, you inject the same amount, and suddenly you die instead of getting high. Legalizing drugs allows the products to be made using processes that control quality, and prevent these deaths. Lastly, again looking at the monetary argument, the drugs won't relegate people to a life on the street trying to pay for the drugs, and if people can continue to get money a legal way, through a job, they will continue to do so, giving them a better reason to stop using drugs in the future, and to get back on the right track.
Next, legalization of drugs would greatly decrease inner city crime and gang related crime. Where do gangs get money from? Selling illegal drugs, what is the incentive to join gangs? Money. You get rid of the profit that can be made selling drugs, you get rid of the drug gangs, you get rid of inner city kids shooting each other over drug “territory.” You stop the exploitation of females forced to illegally carry drugs into this country on airplanes. When you get rid of all this crime against innocents, you will greatly decrease crime, even if some more people are killed by these mythical “psychopath druggies.” There it makes sense on consequentialist grounds if that is what you wish to consider.
Also, you free up millions of dollars of resources for police departments to go after the real bad guys. Some 90% of the criminals in the U.S. are in for drug crimes. We usually spend around $30,000 a year to keep a guy incarcerated, plus lost productivity. We would save billions of dollars by releasing the hundreds of thousands of drug users currently in jail and free that money up to find the terrorists, the murderers, rapists and other violent criminals. We should enlongate their prison sentences. If a drug user commits a violent crime, throw him in jail as a violent criminal, not as a drug user.
In the end, the only thing that matters, is that people have a right to be left alone, to carry on with their lives as they wish. If they aren’t doing anything to harm others, than no harm should come to them simply because they inject a chemical into their body that the government has deemed inappropriate.
~Lyuokdea
First, this is such a sad story, I don’t know if I can comment on the given question of the thread, but to say that there are so many combinations that I’ve seen happen in my life, you can never blame something like this on either the kid or the parent without knowing the situation better, as only Evo does. I’ve seen great parents raise horrible children, and I’ve seen horrible parents have great children.
The most personal story I have is a friend of mine who went to our church. Her mom was an alcoholic and never took care of her. When she was 13 her Mom got pregnant from a guy on a one night stand and had another kid, who she also didn’t take care of, leaving it to my friend to care for a baby while going through high school. She somehow managed it all, held a solid GPA, in high school, and when the mom found a boy friend who had some sense of responsibility, was able to find a job to work while still caring for the kid and being in school, and also volunteering at a hospital once a week. She was given the opportunity to go to a couple good colleges as an undergrad, with good grants, but decided to stay at the local college so that she could continue to watch her brother for the next four years until he is old enough to better fend for himself. It’s amazing what’s she’s gone through and how well she’s been able to work through it and still be a really good person herself.
ek said:If you can give me a reason why the world is a better place with all the drug addicts alive I will be shocked.
Here are a couple:
1. We wouldn't be living in a society where millions lose all rights and are killed off mercilessly because of their decision to put a substance in their OWN body.
2. We wouldn't be living in a society where individuals are meaningless compared to the "society" whatever that is. That sort of rights abuse only leads to a slippery slope. We should put to death anybody who speeds, because they put everybody at a greater risk of dying in a car accident. We could find a way to prove how anyone individuals life is a threat to society, and there is no reason not to eliminate that individual.
3. A person who puts a substance into their own body is doing nothing wrong. It is possible that drugs had a role in this situation, but it is also possible that an emotional breakdown, a hatred of her mother, or any other number of circumstances led to the death. Perhaps her mother had attacked her first upon learning about the drugs and it actually was self defense, we don't know yet.
However, that doesn't even matter. The only relevant question is, how am I violating anybody else's right to exist by putting a substance into my body? Violent crime should most definitely be illegal, you are violating another's right to exist, but drugs involve nobody but the willing user, people have a right to do with their life as they please.
In fact, my (some would view as equally extreme) solution is to legalize drugs, or at the very least, end the war on drugs. Why are drug users responsible for violent crime? In some cases you could say that drugs + usually preexisting mental conditions led to a crime, but those situations are very rare compared to the thousands of cases where drug users commit crimes for one reason, money. Drugs are made extremely expensive by the war on drugs, and thus anybody who wants to use drugs must go to extreme circumstances to get them. In Chicago there was a situation a couple weeks ago where a guy was beaten to death over a pack of Cigarettes, I don't think you saw this behavior when cigarettes were $1 a pack, but now when they are $8 a pack and rising, this type of behavior is on the rise, I wonder why?
Furthermore, Drug Legalization will not increase drug use for a couple reasons. First off, teaching that drugs are bad works for the vast majority of people. Other people will always want to try something that is dangerous and rebelious, and having illegal drugs only fuels that fire, while doing little to prevent the actual use. Furthermore, many addictions to drugs are caused by spikes in drug usage which result from users using drugs that are of different purity. This is also the cause of most overdose deaths. The crack you by from the dealer one day, might have a purity level 2 or 3 times what you bought from him yesterday, you inject the same amount, and suddenly you die instead of getting high. Legalizing drugs allows the products to be made using processes that control quality, and prevent these deaths. Lastly, again looking at the monetary argument, the drugs won't relegate people to a life on the street trying to pay for the drugs, and if people can continue to get money a legal way, through a job, they will continue to do so, giving them a better reason to stop using drugs in the future, and to get back on the right track.
Next, legalization of drugs would greatly decrease inner city crime and gang related crime. Where do gangs get money from? Selling illegal drugs, what is the incentive to join gangs? Money. You get rid of the profit that can be made selling drugs, you get rid of the drug gangs, you get rid of inner city kids shooting each other over drug “territory.” You stop the exploitation of females forced to illegally carry drugs into this country on airplanes. When you get rid of all this crime against innocents, you will greatly decrease crime, even if some more people are killed by these mythical “psychopath druggies.” There it makes sense on consequentialist grounds if that is what you wish to consider.
Also, you free up millions of dollars of resources for police departments to go after the real bad guys. Some 90% of the criminals in the U.S. are in for drug crimes. We usually spend around $30,000 a year to keep a guy incarcerated, plus lost productivity. We would save billions of dollars by releasing the hundreds of thousands of drug users currently in jail and free that money up to find the terrorists, the murderers, rapists and other violent criminals. We should enlongate their prison sentences. If a drug user commits a violent crime, throw him in jail as a violent criminal, not as a drug user.
In the end, the only thing that matters, is that people have a right to be left alone, to carry on with their lives as they wish. If they aren’t doing anything to harm others, than no harm should come to them simply because they inject a chemical into their body that the government has deemed inappropriate.
~Lyuokdea