Why are women not interested in problem solving?

AI Thread Summary
A 17-year-old male expresses frustration in finding a partner who shares his interests in math, programming, and science, perceiving many girls as unoriginal and dismissive of these subjects. Responses suggest that he may be ahead of his peers in maturity and interests, and that he should broaden his social circle beyond those with identical passions. It's noted that many people, regardless of gender, are still exploring their interests at his age, and that college will likely present more opportunities to meet like-minded individuals. The discussion also touches on societal influences that may affect women's participation in STEM fields and the importance of being open-minded in relationships. Overall, patience and a broader perspective are encouraged for finding compatible partners.
  • #51
siddharth said:
Regarding Defennder's question, this study might be interesting as it shows how social influences and culture can affect performance (which in this case, is measured as scores in a math test)

I think that this is behind a paywall. Here's a post which discusses the study.
Interesting article I see. I found this to be particularly relevant:

[PLAIN]http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/320/5880/1164 said:
These[/PLAIN] results suggest that the gender gap in math, although it historically favors boys, disappears in more gender-equal societies...The gender gap in reading, which favors girls and is apparent in all countries, thus expands in more gender-equal societies.

There's also this article published in the Boston Globe linked to in the blog you quoted:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/05/18/the_freedom_to_say_no?mode=PF"
Excerpts:
Now two new studies by economists and social scientists have reached a perhaps startling conclusion: An important part of the explanation for the gender gap, they are finding, are the preferences of women themselves. When it comes to certain math- and science-related jobs, substantial numbers of women - highly qualified for the work - stay out of those careers because they would simply rather do something else.

although it also notes that such disinterest may itself be due to sexist discrimination at the workplaces:
The researchers are not suggesting that sexism and cultural pressures on women don't play a role, and they don't yet know why women choose the way they do. One forthcoming paper in the Harvard Business Review, for instance, found that women often leave technical jobs because of rampant sexism in the workplace.

I have not been able to find the source of the paper published in the Harvard Business Review. Does anyone know the title of the paper?
 
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  • #52
With respect to the previous post, perhaps this article refers to the study in HBR:

BACK in the bad old days, the workplace was a battleground, where sexist jokes and assumptions were the norm.
. . . .
Women were shut off from promotion by an old boys’ network that favored its own. They went to meetings and were often the only women in the room.

All that has changed in the last three decades, except where it has not. In the worlds of science, engineering and technology, it seems, the past is still very much present.

“It’s almost a time warp,” said Sylvia Ann Hewlett, the founder of the Center for Work-Life Policy, a nonprofit organization that studies women and work. “All the predatory and demeaning and discriminatory stuff that went on in workplaces 20, 30 years ago is alive and well in these professions.”
. . . .
The reason the “hard sciences” are “so much worse than other fields,” she said, is multifaceted and rooted in the societal perception that women simply are not as good in math and science as men are.

This notion persists despite the dozens of studies that show the abilities of boys and girls are equal well into high school.

“Most people just don’t look at a woman and see an engineer,” Ms. Muller said.
Diversity Proves Elusive for Women in Technical Fields,
By LISA BELKIN, NY Time, May 15, 2008
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/fashion/15WORK.html

This may be the article in HBR, but I'm not sure.
Off-Ramps and On-Ramps: Keeping Talented Women on the Road to Success
http://www.hbsp.harvard.edu/hbsp/hbr/articles/article.jsp?articleID=R0503B&ml_action=get-article&print=true
 
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  • #53
Here's another article in science which was published very recently

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/321/5888/494
Gender Similarities Characterize Math Performance

Standardized tests in the U.S. indicate that girls now score just as well as boys in math.

They conclude that there is no gender difference in math skills in grade 2-11 students in the US.

Interestingly, they graded the math questions in 4 levels of difficulty and found that very few questions in state tests were at higher levels. Perhaps the test makers should take note.
 
  • #54
Defennder said:
There's also this article published in the Boston Globe linked to in the blog you quoted:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/05/18/the_freedom_to_say_no?mode=PF"
Excerpts:

This is an important factor to consider. Lack of women in a particular field (or any group you want to examine in a particular field) doesn't necessarily mean lack of ability or skill or opportunity in that field. Likewise, prevalence of men in the field doesn't necessarily mean they have greater ability, skill, opportunity or even interest in that field. The last point is something hitting home for me recently, and makes me wonder if this pattern exists more broadly than just my little local population sample.

So, keeping in mind this is anecdotal (but this is GD, so I'll indulge), here's what I've recently been noticing in the biomedical research community at our university. We are ALL struggling to get external funding (there's just too little to go around, this is a known problem and has been going on for several years now). A lot of the faculty are unhappy with this situation and feeling the stress and frustration of being in a job where they can't do what they were hired to do because they don't have the funds or resources to do it. These aren't just people who are bad scientists, these are people who are very good at what they do, but even great proposals don't get funded now because there's barely money for the most outstandingly excellent proposals. You can see it in the reviews coming back, reviewers are nitpicking things that would never have been nitpicked before just trying to find reasons to rank one above another to find a cut-off point for the sparse funding they have.

Okay, so that's the set-up. People are feeling discouraged about staying in research, both sexes, various ranks.

Now, who have I seen changing careers or directions in their careers or focusing on building new skill sets to effect a change in career in the near future? The women. It seems we're the ones saying, "This is a crappy situation, so I'm taking the bull by the horns and getting out while I can." Is it that men don't want to change, or don't want to get out? From those who have expressed their frustrations to me, no. I've had several come up to me since it came out I was applying for education-based positions rather than research-based ones, and their comments have all been similar. "I've been thinking about making such a change too," or "I wish I could get out of here as well." What's holding them back? A sense that they are responsible for providing stability for their families, that they can't just pick up and move, that they can't risk changing careers and losing the stability of the income they have now to support their families, and things like that. While my own situation doesn't have to factor in family stability, the interesting thing is that there ARE women who are married and have young children who are also changing careers and moving. They seem to be approaching it differently...the best way to guarantee stability and support for their family is to move to where there's a better job opportunity in a different field. It seems women are able to "get out" while men feel "stuck." The men seem to be hanging on until they can move up, while the women move out.

In a way, it seems to be dispelling the notion that women follow the men for their careers. It seems that if the women don't want to move, the men aren't picking their families up and moving. Or maybe this is a new change in a direction that didn't exist before, or maybe it's just my isolated population here that behaves differently than the general population. It's just interesting to me.
 
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  • #55
I think the real problem is that scientists have yet to find an actual vaccine for cooties.
 
  • #56
I wish the OP would grow up a little. You're in your early 20's right? Thanks for making my age group look more ignorant with your ridiculous post. :mad:
 
  • #57
I'm a women and I'm interested in problem solving.

I will be going to university from September to study for a Maths degree.
 
  • #58
arildno said:
Easy.
Men like to probe things, women like to chat about them. :smile:
:smile:

nice one.
 
  • #59
look i don't have time to read this entire thread but i'll throw my opinion into the mix and hopefully it's not redundant.

i think there are less women in rigorous sciences because of societal norms. simply look at toys aimed at young girls.

http://toys.about.com/od/hotnewtoyreleases/tp/girltoys2005.htm

and aimed at young boys

http://toys.about.com/od/toysbyage/tp/topboysstoys.htm

the differences are subtle. firstly there are only 3 truly creative toys on the girl's list: the crochet set, the easy bake oven, and the aqua doodle. while on the boy's list there are 4: playdoh, snowcone maker, aqua doodle, and create your own book. one could chalk that up to the statistical insignificance of the sample. the other toys involve manipulation of already made objects. but on the boys list is one more thing that not only is very telling but also if considered a creative toy tips the scales so much so that the difference in creative toys is now statistically significant. on the boys list is the learning system. now while this doesn't directly imply that boys are encouraged to solve problems it does indirectly.

in most egalitarian societies girls score equally as well as boys on math and science tests. in societies with poor women's rights, historic and present, girl's score poorer. if that's damning i don't know what is.
 
  • #60
ice109 said:
the differences are subtle. firstly there are only 3 truly creative toys on the girl's list: the crochet set, the easy bake oven, and the aqua doodle. while on the boy's list there are 4: playdoh, snowcone maker, aqua doodle, and create your own book.

Huh? Since when is Playdoh only a boys' toy? EVERY kid plays with Playdoh. Same with something like a snowcone maker or a create your own book. I had all of those as a kid, and they were never considered boys' toys.
 
  • #61
Moonbear said:
Huh? Since when is Playdoh only a boys' toy? EVERY kid plays with Playdoh. Same with something like a snowcone maker or a create your own book. I had all of those as a kid, and they were never considered boys' toys.

how could you miss the point? i googled boy's toys and girl's toys and found recommendations from a fairly popular site. i didn't have to support the fact that i believed these were the toys little girls and boys played with; it was granted to me by the titles of the pages. if you really want to challenge the reputability of my source, I'm sure that i can find much more offensive sites.
 
  • #62
ice109 said:
how could you miss the point? i googled boy's toys and girl's toys and found recommendations from a fairly popular site. i didn't have to support the fact that i believed these were the toys little girls and boys played with; it was granted to me by the titles of the pages. if you really want to challenge the reputability of my source, I'm sure that i can find much more offensive sites.

I didn't miss the point, I STRONGLY disagree with it. I DO doubt the reputability of the source. C'mon, what girl HASN'T played with Playdoh? It's a completely gender-neutral "toy." Heck, when I was a kid, I think more girls than boys might have had it. They might have just been struggling to fill out the list. The real problem is that people would seek out sites to tell them that some toys are boy toys and others girl toys. If you know any little girls, you'd realize they LOVE creative things just as much as boys. Arts and Crafts type things (which includes Playdoh) are equally loved by both genders.
 
  • #63
Moonbear said:
I didn't miss the point, I STRONGLY disagree with it. I DO doubt the reputability of the source. C'mon, what girl HASN'T played with Playdoh? It's a completely gender-neutral "toy." Heck, when I was a kid, I think more girls than boys might have had it. They might have just been struggling to fill out the list. The real problem is that people would seek out sites to tell them that some toys are boy toys and others girl toys. If you know any little girls, you'd realize they LOVE creative things just as much as boys. Arts and Crafts type things (which includes Playdoh) are equally loved by both genders.

umm you disagree with the thesis that the reason there are more males than females in rigorous sciences is because of societal norms? maybe i should've read the thread after all.
 

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