Why Are Yang-Mills Fields Crucial to the Standard Model?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of Yang-Mills fields in the context of the Standard Model of particle physics, exploring their relationship with mass, the Higgs field, and the challenges of integrating gravity with quantum mechanics. Participants raise questions about the complexity of modern physics and the necessity of the Standard Model given its limitations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants seek a simple explanation of Yang-Mills fields and their relevance to the Standard Model, questioning why particles are massless and how this relates to the Higgs field.
  • There are inquiries about the necessity of the Standard Model, especially considering its incompatibility with gravity, which some argue fits more naturally with other physical phenomena.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the complexity of modern physics mathematics, with some suggesting it may indicate a fundamental issue within the field.
  • One participant explains that Yang-Mills theory underpins quantum field theory (QFT) and describes how global symmetries lead to conserved quantities and the introduction of messenger particles.
  • Participants discuss the role of perturbation theory in QFT, noting its utility in deriving physical results from models, while also acknowledging problems that arise when coupling constants are large.
  • There is mention of the absence of gravity in QFT and the assertion that gravity's effects can be negligible at certain scales.
  • Some participants question whether alternative representations of gravitational fields exist that could reconcile quantum mechanics with gravity, challenging the reliance on tensors as a mathematical tool.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the necessity and effectiveness of the Standard Model, the role of gravity in quantum mechanics, and the complexity of the mathematical frameworks used in modern physics. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on these issues.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific mathematical frameworks, unresolved questions about the integration of gravity with quantum mechanics, and varying interpretations of the implications of Yang-Mills fields.

  • #31
problems with the tool?

My apologies Marlon, for not answering your point. As I have pointed out in other post, the main problem with QM and GTR is that they have an incommesurability problem, in part for the different paradigms from which they start that has to do with two different languages that do not talk to each other, I mean Tensor Analysis and Complex numbers, as in the latter it is possible to rationalize duality what cannot be done in the former. The tool as a tool can be used anywhere, but would you not as an engineer use a tool that fit better for the problem in question?

Regards

EP

marlon said:
Different languages, but they both use tensors, so they can not be the cause of problems.

Indeed strings are not yet a certainty
But we are forgetting one fine concept of from topology. What about compactification and wrapped up dimensions? Maybe this is taking us to far.

Don't just say they talk different languages just because of the difficulties we have in unifying them. Both models use tensors extensively because of the same reason. It has nothing to do with the fact that one uses fields and the other uses curvature of spacetime
 
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  • #32
ok, got your point and I agree.

But complex numbers can be used in GTR right ?

Besides why would we need to introduce the particle-wave-duality in GTR ?

I think this can be done by fields which are also used in GTR just as in the same way that they are used in QFT

regards
marlon
 
  • #33
using complex numbers in GTR?

Hi Marlon,

How would you use complex numbers in GTR? by using Complex Tensors? did Einstein try that?

No, we cannot introduce the wave-particle duality in GTR, at least, in what we undertand by it according to Einstein

Regards

EP
marlon said:
ok, got your point and I agree.

But complex numbers can be used in GTR right ?

Besides why would we need to introduce the particle-wave-duality in GTR ?

regards
marlon
 
  • #34
Now I have been able to read the paper, but let me please repeat here what I posted somewhere else

Cannot those dualities be rationalized, as it were, in a complex mathematical description, i.e., a basic unit system which is not anymore an inequality?, but an equation in which the equal sign is not precisely a symbol JUST to reduce the one to the other? a symbol that permits us to include both, yes-or-no, and complementarity?
Will not be this complex mathematical symbolism nearer to QM? Don't we need a symbolism with which the main fundamental equations of physics, such as those of the Lorentz transformation group, the Schrödinger wave equation, those of gravitational fields, both Newtonian and einsteinian, and additionally those laws of the pendulum that as was pointed out by T.S.K
"How else are we to account for Galileo's discovery that the bob's period is entirely independent of amplitude, a discovery that the normal science stemming from Galileo had to radicate and that we are quite unable to document today?"

can be expressed, not as some kind of TOE, but as a mathematical procedure or language that permits to include them all?... but is really modern physics interested in such an endeavor?

Just some repetitive thoughts in my mind

EP


kurious said:
Lonewolf:
The main reason is that general relativity is a classical theory, not a quantum theory. There have been attempts to develop a gravitational uncertainty principle. You may
be interested in http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9904026

Kurious:

This gravitational uncertainty principle is for a rough Newtonian approximation:

x = h/p + ( p/ h) L^2

where p is uncertainty in momentum x is uncertainty in distance and L is the Planck length.
 

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