- #1
bassplayer142
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Why don't they use pieces of plastic or some material in between two by fours that are vacuum sealed. Isn't the Specific of a vacuum zero?
Why Aren't Plastic Barriers Used in Vacuum Sealed 2x4s?
- Thread starter bassplayer142
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Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around the feasibility and implications of using plastic barriers in vacuum-sealed 2x4s for insulation purposes. Participants explore the theoretical and practical aspects of such a system, including its potential benefits and drawbacks in construction and insulation technology.
Discussion Character
- Exploratory
- Technical explanation
- Conceptual clarification
- Debate/contested
Main Points Raised
- One participant questions the practicality of using plastic to maintain a vacuum, suggesting that the material may not be capable of supporting such a condition.
- Another participant discusses the complexity and costs associated with implementing vacuum-sealed insulation, noting that existing insulation methods may be more effective and simpler to use.
- There is a mention of existing insulation systems that rely on captured air, which may be easier to manage than a vacuum.
- Some participants express skepticism about the benefits of a vacuum in insulation, citing the role of conduction and convection in heat transfer.
- A hypothetical concept is introduced involving a sealed chamber suspended by magnets, which raises questions about soundproofing and thermal insulation, though life support for occupants is noted as a concern.
- One participant humorously suggests a complex method involving magnetizing a house to achieve noise-free insulation, which leads to a discussion about originality and idea theft.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express a range of views on the practicality and effectiveness of vacuum-sealed insulation, with no consensus reached on the viability of the proposed ideas or their potential benefits.
Contextual Notes
Some limitations in the discussion include assumptions about material properties, the longevity of vacuum seals, and the effectiveness of existing insulation methods compared to the proposed vacuum system.
Who May Find This Useful
This discussion may be of interest to those exploring innovative insulation techniques, construction methods, and the theoretical implications of vacuum technology in building design.
- #2
FredGarvin
Science Advisor
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- 10
I am assuming that you are talking in regards to insulating properties. There are a few reasons that I can think of off the top of my head:
1) More complicated parts used in the fabrication of buildings/homes thus causing new skills and building techniques to be employed and thus driving up the costs.
2) The vacuum seal would only last for a certain number of years. Anyone who has Argon or other gaseous type filled windows will tell you the same thing.
3) The studs and the box used to "contain" the vacuum are still pathways for heat and noise transfer.
Given the complexity and added costs involved, I'd bet that the benefits of using such a system would be minimal, especially when it is easier to make accommodations for more of a standard type of insulator.
1) More complicated parts used in the fabrication of buildings/homes thus causing new skills and building techniques to be employed and thus driving up the costs.
2) The vacuum seal would only last for a certain number of years. Anyone who has Argon or other gaseous type filled windows will tell you the same thing.
3) The studs and the box used to "contain" the vacuum are still pathways for heat and noise transfer.
Given the complexity and added costs involved, I'd bet that the benefits of using such a system would be minimal, especially when it is easier to make accommodations for more of a standard type of insulator.
- #3
russ_watters
Mentor
- 23,873
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How would you get plastic to hold up a vacuum anyway?
- #4
Artman
- 1,507
- 40
Many insulation systems rely on captured air for at least part of their insulating value, such as double pane windows, fiberglass, celular glass, double wall vents, etc. It is easier to hold air than a vacuum and air is actually a pretty good insulator.
- #5
bassplayer142
- 431
- 0
Thanks guys.
- #6
moose
- 556
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Why would a vacuum help you?
Somehow Earth receives heat from the sun
Somehow Earth receives heat from the sun
- #7
Ratiocinator
- 20
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A thought I often have: Imagine a completely sealed chamber suspended by magnets and surrounded by a vacuous space, in between its exterior and a second structure that serves as a seal for the vacuum and support for the magnets. The interior of this suspended structure would be totally sound proof and have high thermal insulation.
Of course, life support for anybody within this structure would be an issue, but not one that is impossible to overcome.
I first started thinking about this concept when I used to play the drums. Such a structure, with suitable oxygen supply, would be great as a drum room!
Of course, life support for anybody within this structure would be an issue, but not one that is impossible to overcome.
I first started thinking about this concept when I used to play the drums. Such a structure, with suitable oxygen supply, would be great as a drum room!
- #8
russ_watters
Mentor
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Assuming (due to the wink) that this is a serious question...moose said:Why would a vacuum help you?
Somehow Earth receives heat from the sun
The sun gives us energy through radiation. When the temperature difference is relatively small and conduction and convection exist, conduction and convection play a much bigger role. A vacuum completely eliminates conduction and convection.
- #9
DyslexicHobo
- 249
- 0
So here's what we do. We get a house, and a mold of the house at a 110% scale. We place the house inside the mold, then take all of the air outside of the space in between them. We then magnetize both the floor and the foundation, make em the same charge (we'd need to re-align the domains periodically, so the magnets do not weaken), then voila! We have a completely noise-free, insulated house.
© DyslexicHobo, 2007.
© DyslexicHobo, 2007.
- #10
Ratiocinator
- 20
- 0
DyslexicHobo said:
Er, scroll up a little. Your idea sounds very familiar!
- #11
DyslexicHobo
- 249
- 0
Ratiocinator said:
Hah, didn't even read that. I hate people who steal ideas before they are even published, said, or even thought about. Yeah... those copyright infringers!
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