Why Can the Gamma Factor Exceed 2 in Relativity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the gamma factor in the context of special relativity, specifically addressing why there appears to be no upper limit to its value. Participants explore the implications of the geometry of a light clock as viewed from different frames of reference, and how this relates to the perceived speed of light and time dilation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the gamma factor can exceed 2, suggesting that visualizing the problem with a right triangle leads to confusion about the limits of the hypotenuse relative to the vertical side representing time.
  • Another participant notes that light travels diagonally in the stationary frame, implying that the vertical component of the light's travel time is less than the speed of light, which affects the perceived time on the moving clock.
  • A later reply clarifies that the vertical side of the triangle represents the elapsed time on the moving clock, not its height, indicating that as the speed increases, this vertical side decreases, allowing the hypotenuse (and thus gamma) to increase without limit.
  • One participant emphasizes that the base of the triangle is variable and can become very large as the speed approaches the speed of light, further supporting the idea that there is no upper limit to the gamma factor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the geometry involved in the light clock scenario. There is no consensus on the implications of the gamma factor exceeding 2, as some participants clarify misconceptions while others maintain their original questions.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of visualizing the relationship between the components of the right triangle and the implications for the gamma factor, highlighting the dependence on the definitions of time and distance in different frames of reference.

NoahsArk
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I don't know why this problem just occurred to me- sorry if it's a silly question: Why is it that there isn't a limit to how high the gamma factor can be? How can you ever have a gamma factor which is more than 2, for example? Although if you plug the numbers into the equation for gamma it makes sense that you can have as high a gamma factor as you want, when you look at the problem visually as follows it seems impossible:

If a moving frame S1 has a light clock aboard his ship which is one light second high, that light clock will be the same height in the stationary S frame, and the vertical side of the right triangle which represents the light clock will be one light second high. From S's point of view, the base of the right triangle can't be any longer than 1 light second because S1's ship can't be traveling faster than light speed. The longest the base of the right triangle can be is slightly less than 1. So, assuming that the height and base of the right triangle are equal, the hypotenuse will never be more than double the height of vertical side. Since the length that S observes the light beam traveling can never be more than double what S1 observes, how can there ever be a gamma factor of more than 2?
 
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NoahsArk said:
I don't know why this problem just occurred to me- sorry if it's a silly question: Why is it that there isn't a limit to how high the gamma factor can be? How can you ever have a gamma factor which is more than 2, for example? Although if you plug the numbers into the equation for gamma it makes sense that you can have as high a gamma factor as you want, when you look at the problem visually as follows it seems impossible:

If a moving frame S1 has a light clock aboard his ship which is one light second high, that light clock will be the same height in the stationary S frame, and the vertical side of the right triangle which represents the light clock will be one light second high. From S's point of view, the base of the right triangle can't be any longer than 1 light second because S1's ship can't be traveling faster than light speed. The longest the base of the right triangle can be is slightly less than 1. So, assuming that the height and base of the right triangle are equal, the hypotenuse will never be more than double the height of vertical side. Since the length that S observes the light beam traveling can never be more than double what S1 observes, how can there ever be a gamma factor of more than 2?

The obvious answer is "do the maths"!
 
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Light is traveling on the diagonal as viewed from S, so its vertical speed is less than c. So the up-and-down time is greater than 2s.
 
Ok I see where my misconception is coming from. I must have had temporary brain freeze today because I understood this before. The vertical side of the right triangle is not representing the height of the light clock. It's representing the elapsed time on S1 's clock. Because this vertical side gets less and less the faster S1 moves away from S, there is no limit to how many times longer the hypotenuse can become and therefore no limit to how large gamma can be.
 
NoahsArk said:
Ok I see where my misconception is coming from. I must have had temporary brain freeze today because I understood this before. The vertical side of the right triangle is not representing the height of the light clock. It's representing the elapsed time on S1 's clock. Because this vertical side gets less and less the faster S1 moves away from S, there is no limit to how many times longer the hypotenuse can become and therefore no limit to how large gamma can be.

I would say it's the base of the triangle that is of variable length (with no upper limit). If the speed of the clock is nearly ##c##, then in the "stationary" frame, the light will travel a long way horizontally before it reaches the top of the clock.
 
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