Why Can't I Get the Correct Answer Using Energy to Calculate Rotational Inertia?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of energy conservation principles to calculate rotational inertia in a system involving a flywheel and a high-speed train (HST). The original poster expresses confusion over discrepancies between their energy-based calculations and expected results, particularly when comparing energy in the flywheel to that in the HST.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to use energy conservation to relate the energies of the flywheel and HST, questioning why their calculations yield a significantly different result for rotational inertia compared to expected values.
  • Some participants question the assumption that energy should be conserved between the flywheel and HST, suggesting that the initial conditions and energy sources must be considered.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of energy conversion, with references to kinetic and gravitational energy in other contexts, and how these principles may not directly apply to the rotational energies in this scenario.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of energy conservation in the context of rotational motion. Some guidance has been offered regarding the assumptions made by the original poster, particularly about the initial energy states and the role of internal energy in the system.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the initial energy of both the flywheel and HST is zero, and that energy is introduced into the system from an external source, which complicates the assumption of energy conservation between the two components. This highlights potential misunderstandings about how energy is transferred and transformed in this specific scenario.

Pochen Liu
Messages
52
Reaction score
2

Homework Statement


How come I can't get the correct answer using Energy as a way to solve this?
upload_2018-11-2_20-34-24.png


Homework Equations


3. The Attempt at a Solution [/B]
The answers use conservation of momentum which makes perfect sense and I understand that, however I used an energy approach where E(flywheel) = E(HST)

So E(flywheel) = 0.5 * 43.2 * 3.22^2 = 223.967J
E(HST) = 0.5 * I * 0.07539^2 (I know this is the correct angular velocity from the answers)

When I solve this I = 78807.427 Kgm^2, the answer is 1850.

What am I doing wrong conceptually? And what have I done, as in, if given a different situation where would have my working have resulted in the correct answer?
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-11-2_20-34-24.png
    upload_2018-11-2_20-34-24.png
    18.6 KB · Views: 684
Physics news on Phys.org
What makes you think energy should be the same for the flywheel and for HST?
 
Because when I throw a ball into the air the Ek is converted into Eg and then all (most of it) is converted back into Ek as it falls back down, so shouldn't this apply to E(rotational) too?
 
Pochen Liu said:
Because when I throw a ball into the air the Ek is converted into Eg and then all (most of it) is converted back into Ek as it falls back down, so shouldn't this apply to E(rotational) too?
But this is not at all what is going on. Initially both HST and the flywheel have an energy of 0. Then internal energy (likely stored in a battery) is used to produce motion. Since rotational energy cannot be negative, the rotational energy after turning on the flywheel is positive for both HST and the flywheel. The conversion of energy is from internal energy in the battery to rotational energy so you cannot assume that rotational energy among the two components is conserved. Furthermore, in your approach the total energy is not conserved since it is 0 at the beginning and non-zero in the rotation. You are just making an ad hoc assumption that the rotational energies of each component must be the same.

What you have is more similar to an excited atom emitting a photon. The excess energy is not split evenly between the photon and the atom. Due to the atom being much heavier, the photon will take (most of) the energy.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Pochen Liu

Similar threads

Replies
14
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
3K