Why can't we use an iron bar as magnet

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter AlonsoMcLaren
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Iron Magnet
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of why an iron bar cannot be used as a magnet without prior magnetization, despite being below its Curie point at room temperature. Participants explore the nature of magnetic domains in iron and the conditions necessary for magnetization.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that at room temperature, the spins in an iron bar should be aligned, yet it cannot function as a magnet without being rubbed against another magnet.
  • Another participant explains that iron bars settle into magnetic domains that cancel each other's fields, and that external magnetization is required to align these domains.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that most pieces of iron are magnetized to a low level naturally, but the overall magnetization is weak due to the domain structure.
  • One participant adds that even commercially available permanent magnets, like Nd2Fe14B, contain random domains initially and require magnetization to achieve a strong magnetic field.
  • The distinction between "hard" and "soft" magnets is introduced, with "hard" magnets needing a high magnetic field to maintain magnetization, while "soft" magnets can easily lose their magnetization.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the inherent magnetization of iron bars and the necessity of external magnetization, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the behavior of magnetic domains and the conditions for magnetization are not fully explored, leaving room for further clarification and discussion.

AlonsoMcLaren
Messages
89
Reaction score
2
A really basic question: since room temperature (300K) is much lower than the Curie point of iron (1043K), the spins in an iron bar at room temperature should be lined up even when the external magnetic field B=0

Then why can't we use any iron bar as magnet? Instead we have to rub the iron bar against a magnet to make the iron bar into a magnet?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
AlonsoMcLaren said:
Then why can't we use any iron bar as magnet
Because when it is made it settles into domains which cancel the overall field. When you force many to tend one direction is when it becomes a magnet, until it gets back up to the curie temp and it releases all magnetic moments to cancel again.
 
AlonsoMcLaren said:
Then why can't we use any iron bar as magnet?

You can. Most pieces of iron are magnetized at a very low level. (Before asking why something is true, it is important to ask if it is true). The reason the level is low is because of what jerromyjon said.
 
Even permanent magnets that you buy such as Nd2Fe14B have random domains when they are made and have to be magnetized first.
A good "hard" permanent magnet must hold this magnetization very well. This usually means that you need a very high magnetic field to magnetize it. "Soft" magnets depolarize easily. These are useful as cores in transformers, electric motors and electromagnets.
 

Similar threads

Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K