Why Can't You Simplify Natural Logs of Negative Numbers?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical properties of the natural logarithm, particularly focusing on the logarithm of negative numbers and the implications of multi-valued functions in complex analysis. Participants explore the formal reasoning behind why certain manipulations involving logarithms and negative numbers lead to apparent contradictions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of manipulating logarithms of negative numbers, specifically why \(\ln{(-1)}^2\) does not equal \(2 \ln(-1)\).
  • Another participant explains that the natural logarithm \(\ln z\) is multi-valued, introducing the concept of contour integrals and how winding around the origin affects the value of the logarithm.
  • A third participant notes that since \(e^{2n\pi i} = 1\), it follows that \(\ln(1) = 2n\pi i\) for any integer \(n\), reinforcing the multi-valued nature of the logarithm.
  • A later reply acknowledges the clarification regarding the multi-valued aspect of the natural logarithm when extended to the complex plane.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the multi-valued nature of the logarithm in the context of complex analysis, but the initial question about the manipulation of logarithms of negative numbers remains open for further exploration.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the definitions of logarithmic functions in complex analysis and the implications of contour integration, which may not be universally understood without additional context.

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I've got a simple question that's been bugging me for a while. I think I know where the problem is, I'd just like a formal mathematical reason why I can't say this:

[tex]\ln{(-1)}^2 = \ln(1) = 0[/tex]

That part is fine...but then:

[tex]\ln{(-1)}^2 = 2 \ln(-1) = 2 (i \pi)[/tex]

when they should obviously be equal.

It presumably displays the fact that you can't take the square and put it in front of the log as a "2" when you're dealing with logs of negative numbers. I'd like to know if there's any formal theory behind why this can't be done.

Thanks!
 
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What you're running into is the fact that [itex]\ln z[/itex] is multi-valued. Define [itex]\ln z[/itex] as the contour integral

[tex]\ln z = \int_{\gamma} \frac{d\zeta}{\zeta}[/tex]

where [itex]\gamma[/itex] is some contour running from 1 to z.

Now, note that for each time the contour [itex]\gamma[/itex] winds around the origin in a positive sense, you get [itex]2\pi i[/itex] added to the integral (you can show this by the method of residues). Therefore, [itex]\ln z[/itex] is multivalued:

[tex]\ln z = \ln_p z + 2n\pi i[/tex]

where [itex]\ln_p z[/itex] is the principle value, and [itex]n[/itex] is any integer.
 
A simple way of seeing this is noting that exp(2n[pi]i)=1. Therefore ln(1)=2n[pi]i where n is any integer.
 
Ah great! That makes perfect sense.

So the natural log of 1 is, infact, multivalued if you allow a mapping to the complex plane?

Thanks for cleaning that up anyway Ben & mathman.
 

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