Integral involving square and log

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around an integral that involves squares and natural logarithms, with constants ##A##, ##b##, and ##x_e##, while ##x## is treated as a variable. Participants explore methods for isolating ##x## from the resulting expression after integration, considering both analytical and numerical approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the integral and expresses difficulty in isolating ##x## after integration, suggesting a potential need for alternative integration methods.
  • Another participant mentions using Mathematica to solve the integral in terms of Product Log functions and encourages exploring these functions for a solution.
  • A different participant critiques the use of the same variable for both the limits of integration and the variable of integration, recommending a change for clarity.
  • This participant also asserts that there is no analytic way to isolate ##x##, suggesting numerical methods as the best approach for approximating roots of the equation derived from the integral.
  • Some participants propose that the Lambert W function could be used to solve for ##x##, indicating that it may provide an acceptable analytic solution, although they acknowledge the complexity of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that isolating ##x## analytically is challenging, with some suggesting the Lambert W function as a possible method. However, there is no consensus on whether this constitutes an acceptable analytic solution, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the applicability of the Lambert W function and the limitations of numerical methods. There are also concerns about the clarity of variable usage in the integral.

Figaro
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I have this integral that when solved, involves squares and natural logs, where ##A\,##,##\,b\,##, and ##\,x_e\,## are constants while ##x## is a variable.

##A = \int_{x_e}^{x} \frac{x^2 - b^2}{x} dx = \int_{x_e}^{x} x \, dx -b^2 \int_{x_e}^{x} \frac{dx}{x} = \frac{x^2}{2} - \frac{x_e^2}{2} - b^2 \ln x + b^2 \ln x_e##

Now, I want to solve for ##x## but I can't think of a way to isolate x, maybe there is a way to integrate this another way and come up with an answer that can isolate x easily or maybe there is something I'm missing?
 
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When I encounter these I first check if Mathematica can solve it in terms of Product Log functions. It can. Then I try to solve it myself using the properties of Product log (or the Lambert W function). Try and investigate these functions and see if you can come up with a solution.
 
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Figaro said:
I have this integral that when solved, involves squares and natural logs, where ##A\,##,##\,b\,##, and ##\,x_e\,## are constants while ##x## is a variable.

##A = \int_{x_e}^{x} \frac{x^2 - b^2}{x} dx = \int_{x_e}^{x} x \, dx -b^2 \int_{x_e}^{x} \frac{dx}{x} = \frac{x^2}{2} - \frac{x_e^2}{2} - b^2 \ln x + b^2 \ln x_e##
First off, it's not good practice to have the same variable as one of the limits of integration and also the variable of integration. Most textbooks would write your integral as ##A = \int_{x_e}^{x} \frac{t^2 - b^2}{t} dt##. There is less chance of becoming confused.
Figaro said:
Now, I want to solve for ##x## but I can't think of a way to isolate x, maybe there is a way to integrate this another way and come up with an answer that can isolate x easily or maybe there is something I'm missing?
No, there is no other way of integration that would do this. Your integral represents a function of x, and as it turns out, the function involves a log term and a term with ##x^2##. There is no analytic way of isolating the variable. The best you can do is use numerical methods to approximate roots of the equation ##A = \frac{x^2}{2} - \frac{x_e^2}{2} - b^2 \ln x + b^2 \ln x_e##.
 
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Mark44 said:
There is no analytic way of isolating the variable.

If $$y=x^2/2-b^2 \log(x)+c$$ then I believe we can solve for x using the Lambert W function. I've not done this one in particular by hand but Mathematica obtains:

$$\left\{\left\{x\to -i b \sqrt{W\left(-\frac{e^{\frac{2 c}{b^2}-\frac{2 y}{b^2}}}{b^2}\right)}\right\},\left\{x\to i b \sqrt{W\left(-\frac{e^{\frac{2 c}{b^2}-\frac{2 y}{b^2}}}{b^2}\right)}\right\}\right\}$$

Is this not an acceptable analytic solution?
 
aheight said:
If $$y=x^2/2-b^2 \log(x)+c$$ then I believe we can solve for x using the Lambert W function.
Short of that, there's no analytic way. I was thinking about the Lambert W function when I replied earlier, but didn't mention it.
 

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