Why Did I Get the Newton's Law Problem Wrong?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PhysicsinCalifornia
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Law Newton's law
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving Newton's laws, specifically focusing on the dynamics of blocks on a tabletop and the effects of friction. The original poster seeks clarification on their calculations related to the maximum mass that can be suspended without causing the blocks to slip.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss various equations of motion and forces acting on the blocks, including tension, friction, and acceleration. There is an exploration of different expressions for acceleration and how they relate to the system's dynamics.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively comparing their derived equations for acceleration and discussing the implications of their findings. Some guidance has been offered regarding the relationships between the forces and the resulting equations, but no consensus has been reached on the correctness of the original poster's calculations.

Contextual Notes

There are references to assumptions about friction coefficients and the conditions under which the blocks slide together. The original poster's setup is acknowledged as correct by a participant, yet discrepancies in the derived equations indicate potential misunderstandings or miscalculations that are still being explored.

PhysicsinCalifornia
Messages
58
Reaction score
0
Hi, I needed to calculate this for my quiz couple days ago, but I didn't get the right answer. Professor told me that I set it up correctly, so I don't understand why I got it wrong. Can anyone help? I resolved this problem, so I just need to verify the answer. Thanks

Q: Block B, with mass [tex]m_b[/tex], rests on block A, with mass [tex]m_a[/tex], which in turn is on a horizontal tabletop. The coefficient of kinetic friction between block A and the tabletop is [tex]\mu_k[/tex], and the coefficient of static friction between block A and block B is [tex]\mu_s[/tex]. A light string attached to block A passes over a frictionless, massless pulley and block C is suspended from the other end of the string. What is the largest mass [tex]m_c[/tex] that block C can have so that blocks A and B still slide together when the system is released from rest?

Here is what I have so far:

[tex]\SigmaF = m_ca[/tex]
Block C
______
[tex]x:m_cg - T_c = m_ca[/tex]
[tex]T_c = m_c(g-a)[/tex]

Block B
--------
[tex]x: f_B = m_ba[/tex]
[tex]\mu_sN_B = m_ba[/tex]
[tex]y:N_b - m_bg = 0[/tex]
[tex]N_b = m_bg[/tex]

Block A
-------
[tex]x:T_A - f_A - f_B = m_Aa[/tex]
[tex]T_A - \mu_kN_A - \mu_sN_B = m_Aa[/tex]
[tex]y: N_A - N_B - m_Ag = 0[/tex]

Max [tex]m_c[/tex]
-------------------
[tex]T_C = m_c(g-a)[/tex]
[tex]T_A = T_C[/tex]

Now I need to solve for a:
-------------------------
[tex]m_Aa + \mu_kN_B + \mu_sN_B = m_c(g-a)[/tex]
[tex]m_Aa + \mu_k[g(m_A + m_B)] + \mu_s(m_bg) = m_cg - m_ca[/tex]
[tex]a = \frac{\mu_sN_B}{m_B} = \frac{\mu_sm_Bg}{m_B} = \mu_sg[/tex]
[tex]m_A(\mu_sg) + \mu_k[g(m_A + m_B)] + \mu_s(m_Bg) = m_cg - m_c(\mu_sg)[/tex]
[tex]m_A\mu_sg + \mu_k[g(m_A + m_B)] + \mu_sm_bg = m_c(g - \mu_sg)[/tex]
[tex]m_c = \frac{m_A\mu_sg + \mu_k[g(m_A + m_B)] + \mu_sm_Bg}{g - \mu_sg}[/tex]

Is this correct?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
PhysicsinCalifornia said:
[tex]a = \frac{\mu_sN_B}{m_B} = \frac{\mu_sm_Bg}{m_B} = \mu_sg[/tex]

Is this correct?
With no slipping, the acceleration should be
[tex]a = \frac{m_C-(m_A+m_B)\mu_k}{m_A+m_B+m_C}g[/tex]
 
OlderDan said:
With no slipping, the acceleration should be
[tex]a = \frac{m_C-(m_A+m_B)\mu_k}{m_A+m_B+m_C}g[/tex]

Well, with my acceleration and your accerlation, I set those equal to each other and I got:

[tex]m_c = \frac{(m_A + m_B)(\mu_s + \mu_k)}{(1 - \mu_s)}[/tex]
 
PhysicsinCalifornia said:
Well, with my acceleration and your accerlation, I set those equal to each other and I got:

[tex]m_c = \frac{(m_A + m_B)(\mu_s + \mu_k)}{(1 - \mu_s)}[/tex]
So, I take it you accept my equation for (a). Can you see where it comes from? You should be able to reproduce it from your free body equations.
 
OlderDan said:
[tex]a = \frac{m_C-(m_A+m_B)\mu_k}{m_A+m_B+m_C}g[/tex]

Well, I see that [tex]m_A + m_B[/tex] comes from the two blocks on top of each other because block A is at rest relative to block B.
In that case:
[tex]T - f_k = (m_A + m_B)a[/tex]
[tex]T - \mu_kN = (m_A + m_B)a[/tex]
[tex]T - \mu_k(m_A + m_B)g = (m_A + m_B)a[/tex]
Plugging T with the equation that I had:
[tex]T_c = m_cg - m_ca[/tex] since Tension are equal
thus::

[tex](m_cg - m_ca) - \mu_k(m_A + m_B)g = (m_A + m_B)a[/tex]
Solving for a gives:
[tex]a = g\frac{m_c - \mu_k(m_A + m_B)}{m_A + m_B + m_c}[/tex]

That matches with your a
 
PhysicsinCalifornia said:
That matches with your a
Then I think we are good on this one.
 

Similar threads

Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
7K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K