Why do E and G both degrade by 1/r^2?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the reasons why both electric and gravitational fields diminish with distance according to a 1/r^2 relationship. Participants explore whether this behavior is solely a geometric property and why not all fundamental forces exhibit the same degradation pattern.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the 1/r^2 value is based solely on geometric properties, specifically the area of a sphere.
  • Another participant asserts that the 1/r^2 relationship is due to geometry, noting that different charge or mass distributions complicate the field behavior.
  • A participant challenges the idea by asking why other fundamental forces do not degrade by 1/r^2.
  • It is mentioned that the strong and weak nuclear forces degrade differently than the electric and gravitational forces, with a focus on the mass of mediating particles.
  • One participant explains that electromagnetic radiation, mediated by massless photons, has an infinite range, while the strong and weak forces are limited due to their massive mediators.
  • Another participant elaborates on the geometric reasoning, indicating that the 1/r^2 relationship applies when mediating particles are massless.
  • A participant describes how the 1/r^2 relationship arises from the way something radiates from a point in three-dimensional space, contrasting it with line sources and hypothetical scenarios in higher dimensions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the 1/r^2 relationship to all fundamental forces, indicating that multiple competing views remain regarding the underlying reasons for the degradation patterns of different forces.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the discussion involves assumptions about the nature of mediating particles and their mass, as well as the geometric implications of field behavior.

Ghost117
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Both the electric and gravitational fields 'die off' at 1/r^2 ... why?

Is this 1/r^2 value based on a geometric property (area of a sphere) alone? If so, then why don't all the fundamental forces degrade by this same value?

Thanks
 
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The 1/r^2 is purely due to geometry - if you have any charge or mass distribution other than a sphere or point source, the 1/r^2 goes away and the field is more complicated.
 
Ghost117 said:
If so, then why don't all the fundamental forces degrade by this same value?

can you name one that doesn't ?
 
Then why doesn't the strong force also degrade by 1/r^2 ?
 
Ghost117 said:
Then why doesn't the strong force also degrade by 1/r^2 ?

that's correct, the strong nuclear force and also the weak nuclear force degrade differently
Basically, it is all to do with the mediating particles and if they have mass or not
The strong nuclear force which has the mediator particle as a gluon is only strong at atomic distances.
as is the weak nuclear and its mediator particles the W and Z bosons

EM radiation is mediated by the photon and has no mass and as a result the range of an EM field is infinite

Im not a particle physicist ... I don't want to go any deeper than that :wink:

Dave
 
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That helps, so it's not just geometry, or more specifically, the geometric reasoning only applies when the mediating particles are mass-less... Thanks.
 
the 1/r^2 thing is basically the way something radiating from a point decreases in a three dimensional space. A line source decreases at 1/r and if we lived in four spatial dimensions instead of three, a point source would decrease as 1/r^3.
 
cosmik debris said:
the 1/r^2 thing is basically the way something radiating from a point decreases in a three dimensional space. A line source decreases at 1/r and if we lived in four spatial dimensions instead of three, a point source would decrease as 1/r^3.

But that's not the complete answer (1/r^2 only applies to 2 of the 4 forces.) See Davenn's response above.
 

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