The Smoking Man
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LOL ... You forget that the years prior to the 'revolution', the USA WAS Britain and the slaves there (and the prisoners exported from Britain) were the workforce.pi-r8 said:TSM- I'm not really sure what you're arguing with me about. What Burnsys said, and I disputed, was that the wealth of Europe was built by slave labor, and by stealing gold and silver from the Americas. I would have thought it obvious that this couldn't possibly build an economy- all you'd end up with is a large untrained workforce and an inflated price of gold and silver. I never disputed whether or not the European powers imported slaves or gold and silver, I'm just trying to show that that's not an effective economic policy.
Since this is the same philosophy used in China right now, I don't follow. Gold and Silver or Sony Walkmans and Cell phones. Take your pick. Slave labour producing Ingots or Electronics ... it doesn't matter. The effect is the same. The difference is ... Gold and silver are the product and the wealth at the same time requiring no domestic market. Electronics require a market and sap the domesic economy by producing a vertical flow of wealth in a credit based economy. If this had been done in the times of slavery with no socialist forms of wealth distribution, the rich would be in charge of warehouses filled with walkmans and no markets. As it is, they ended up with vaults filled with ingots of gold and silver ... even the Vatican which had a low population and a tithe of at least 10% of the take.pi-r8 said:To prove this, I brought up the point that during the time in which the European powers were doing this, their economies didn't really grow very much- their people still weren't much richer than those in what are now considered third world countries. During the industrial revolution, however, the wealth of Europeans skyrocketed.
No, actually at the time of the Industrial revolution, they also created a thing called Unions which moved some of the wealth downwards through a form of socialism and reduced the cost of production on mass produced goods making them affordable to the unwahsed masses.pi-r8 said:Since the no European power was importing slaves or stolen gold/silver at that time, I think that that proves that the idea of Europe's wealth being built on slavery and theft to be false.
Yes, again, because of WWI America found itself relatively untouched and yet , as you point out, still managed to have 'the Great Depression'. Manwhile, Europe was rebuilding for the first time.pi-r8 said:This is completely false. The USA's wealth had been growing rapidly up until WWII, with the exception of the great depression of course. The USA had the largest GDP of any country in the world when WWII broke out. By far.
Yes. Look at it this way ... Most of the European industry had been converted over to the war effort. Enemies bombed each others war industries ... ergo, the factories previously producing products for consumers (like BMW) were bombed repeatedly and the machinery was lost. When the war ended, there was no industry to speak of and required a period of restoration until they could be brought back on-line. During that time, they were requred to look elsewhere for product. The only place left standing was ... the USA.pi-r8 said:So you're saying that, while the USA becoming inefficient and unskilled, it's economy was finally starting to grow?![]()
The point is that before the war European products were universally made with higher standards of quality and American made products carried the same stigma as the 'Made in Japan' or 'Made in Hong Kong' had in the 1960's America.pi-r8 said:They've also made some cars that are a piece of ****, like the Yugo for instance. What's your point?
That and the effects of WWI on the European economy.pi-r8 said:This started happening long before WWII. It happened because the American economy was growing so quickly, thanks to the industrial revolution.
Umm no ... look at my previous post. America is crippled with socialist programs along with most European countries. You have to look to China to find an economy free of Socialist/Communist principals. I say again ... China, regardless of what the name says is Fascist, not Communist. There is no universal health care, welfare, Unions, redistribution of wealth, minimum wage ... NOTHING. It is totally ruled internally by the power of the Currency and who has the most. (Including the government)pi-r8 said:So do you agree with me then that socialism hurts the economy, and capitalism helps it? I thought you were arguing with me.
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