Why Do Photons and Gravitons Have Classical Counterparts in QFT?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between quantum field theory (QFT) and classical counterparts of particles, specifically focusing on photons and gravitons. Participants explore the nature of these particles, their classical analogs, and the implications for understanding static electric and gravitational fields from a quantum perspective.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that all particles in QFT are excitations of fundamental quantum fields, with photons and gravitons being unique due to their classical counterparts in long-range interactions.
  • Others argue that quantum fields resemble classical waves when many particles occupy the same state, leading to classical electromagnetic and gravitational waves as states of many photons and gravitons, respectively.
  • A participant questions the definition of "classical" in relation to photons and gravitons, seeking clarification on what makes them classical compared to other particles.
  • There is a discussion about the static electric field around an electric charge, with one participant suggesting that without a test particle, there are no photons present, raising questions about the existence of the electric field in such a scenario.
  • Another participant mentions that in covariant QED, the static Coulomb field is mediated by scalar and longitudinal photons, which exist in vacuum, even in the absence of transverse photons.
  • Concerns are raised about the cancellation of scalar and longitudinal modes and the implications of their existence without a test particle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classical nature of photons and gravitons, the interpretation of static fields in quantum terms, and the role of various photon modes in mediating fields. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the classical analogs of certain particles and the implications of quantum fields for static electric and gravitational fields. There are unresolved questions regarding the behavior of scalar and longitudinal modes in the absence of test particles.

karlzr
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In QFT, all particles can be interpreted as excitations of some fundamental quantum fields in the vacuum. This is the quantum picture. But in classical world, only photons and gravitons have classical counterparts. How to explain this? The common feature of these two is that they are intermediate particles of long-range interactions. But This is far from satisfactory to me. So I was wondering whether there is a deeper and better explanation of this problem.
 
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Roughly speaking, quantum fields look like classical waves when there are many particles in the same state. So classical electromagnetic waves are states of many photons and classical gravitational waves are states of many gravitons.

Fermion fields don't have any states that look classical, because you cannot put more than one fermion in the same state. So there is no classical analog of the electron field.

The W, Z, and Higgs fields are bosonic but they never look classical because these bosons all decay long before you could hope to construct a state containing lots of them. (This is pretty much the same thing as saying that they don't mediate long-range interactions.)

The gluon field undergoes confinement and so there aren't actually any states that look like gluons, let alone states with many coherent gluons. There are only hadrons and glueballs.
 
karlzr said:
But in classical world, only photons and gravitons have classical counterparts.
What do you mean by this? What is "classical" about photons and gravitons?
 
The_Duck said:
Roughly speaking, quantum fields look like classical waves when there are many particles in the same state. So classical electromagnetic waves are states of many photons and classical gravitational waves are states of many gravitons.

For the static electric field around an electric charge, how to understand it from the perspective of quantum fields? In the absence of test particle, I guess there is no photons except vacuum bubble. So can we say there is no electric field unless a test particle is placed nearby to have virtual photon exchange?

Meir Achuz said:
What do you mean by this? What is "classical" about photons and gravitons?
Of course we don't have quanta in classical world. I mean the classical wave or field: EM field or radiation, gravitational field or gravitational wave.
 
karlzr said:
For the static electric field around an electric charge, how to understand it from the perspective of quantum fields?

In covariant QED the static Coulomb field is mediated by the scalar and longitudinal photons which exist even in vacuum (where no transverse photons are present).
 
WannabeNewton said:
In covariant QED the static Coulomb field is mediated by the scalar and longitudinal photons which exist even in vacuum (where no transverse photons are present).

Doesn't the scalar mode always cancel out the longitudinal mode?
If there is no test particle, where do the scalar and longitudinal modes end?
 

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