Why do scientists believe white holes are impossible?

[Ultrastar 1]

I have multiple reasons why white holes do not exist. But first let’s go over what a white hole is. It is: the same as a black hole, but in reverse. Instead of sucking up matter and light, it spits it out. This spit out matter and light are said to have been from a black hole, transported to the white hole by a wormhole or inter-space bridge. This is not true because: first, it violates thermodynamic law number 2. Second, the wormhole cannot be produced by a black hole because the gravitational sheer that a black hole produces would be too great for a formation of a wormhole, meaning it would be impossible for it to form because of all the gravity produced by the black hole. Third: we know that it takes a significant amount of gravitational energy or force in order to reshape the fabric of space and form wormholes, but is that amount equal or less than the amount generated by black holes? Not even close. As we know, black holes are sort of shaped like funnels. They suck up matter and light and channel it into the core of their singulaty, where it is pretty much destroyed. Well, because a black hole channels all of its energy forward instead of backward or any other direction, no energy is going past the core to make a wormhole, therefore, not transmitting their matter and light to a white hole, thus rendering white holes nonexistent.

 

[jamesabc]

then where does all the material go once it is in the black hole? it has to go somewhere.

also have scientists actually observed material being sucked into a black hole?

 

[Klockan3]

then where does all the material go once it is in the black hole? it has to go somewhere.

Where did all the material the black hole consists of come from? It have to come from somewhere?

 

[HallsofIvy]

It comes from the space around the black hole, of course. That part has been observed. I don't see your point.

 

[Klockan3]

It comes from the space around the black hole, of course. That part has been observed. I don't see your point.

My points was that his question was as dumb as the question I asked him.

The mass is inside the black hole, in what form or shaper we don't know, but it is in there.

 

[Ultrastar 1]

My points was that his question was as dumb as the question I asked him.

The mass is inside the black hole, in what form or shaper we don't know, but it is in there.

Who did you ask the question to?

 

[Ultrastar 1]

then where does all the material go once it is in the black hole? it has to go somewhere.

also have scientists actually observed material being sucked into a black hole?

Ok, here is how it works: Some people (and I am one of them) believe that the matter that is scuked up goes into the core of the black black hole, and is then compressed again and again until there is nothing left. This is because the force that compresses the matter is circulating around the core of the black hole (the core is originally the core of a collapsed neutron star.) This circulation causes the above stated compression cylce.

 

[Archosaur]

They suck up matter and light and channel it into the core of their singulaty, where it is pretty much destroyed.

I like how you used the violation of thermo 2 as evidence that white holes can't exist, but your model of a black hole violates the most basic of all of the laws of physics.

 

[Ultrastar 1]

I like how you used the violation of thermo 2 as evidence that white holes can't exist, but your model of a black hole violates the most basic of all of the laws of physics.

Can you expain the last post a little bit more?

 

[Ultrastar 1]

I like how you used the violation of thermo 2 as evidence that white holes can't exist, but your model of a black hole violates the most basic of all of the laws of physics.

Thanks. Can you expain the last post a little bit more?

 

[Archosaur]

matter... is compressed again and again until there is nothing left.

matter and light... is pretty much destroyed.

google "Conservation of Matter"

 

[Ultrastar 1]

google "Conservation of Matter"

oh ok. Thanks. I'm still not convinced that they exist though, you can't ignore my theory... (:

 

[Archosaur]

oh ok. Thanks. I'm still not convinced that they exist though, you can't ignore my theory... (:

Whoa now. Don't get me wrong. I was only trying to suggest a little rethinking of your model of a black hole. I wasn't trying to defend white holes. Heck no. I'm not convinced either.

 

[Ultrastar 1]

Whoa now. Don't get me wrong. I was only trying to suggest a little rethinking of your model of a black hole. I wasn't trying to defend white holes. Heck no. I'm not convinced either.

Oh ok. I understood you wrong. Thanks, ill try to rethink the theory.

 

[menergyam]

Can anyone describe the entropy increase or decrease for black and white holes?

 

[Ultrastar 1]

Can anyone describe the entropy increase or decrease for black and white holes?

Im still working on that. Entropy is not a subject that I can understand that good. I am close to an answer, but I am still donig research. I will let you know when I have something.

 

[stevebd1]

Can anyone describe the entropy increase or decrease for black and white holes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics#Black_hole_entropy" and black hole thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle#Black_Hole_entropy" in the context of the holographic principle.

 

[Dmitry67]

What do you think about ring (Kerr) singularities>

 

[Dmitry67]

P.S. From wiki, I don't understand this part:

If black holes carried no entropy, it would be possible to violate the second law of thermodynamics by throwing mass into the black hole. The only way to satisfy the second law is to admit that the black holes have entropy whose increase more than compensates for the decrease of the entropy carried by the object that was swallowed.

I see that point, you can not get rid of entropy by throwing objects in a black hole.

However, the second law is defined for the isolated SYSTEM and implicitly uses the absolute simultanity of the state of that system which is not consistent with SR/GR and for the Black Hole is not applicable 'as is', at least, without giving additional clarifications.

 

[Ultrastar 1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics#Black_hole_entropy" and black hole thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle#Black_Hole_entropy" in the context of the holographic principle.

Thanks. I think I have a little more understanding on entropy.

 

[Mr. Paradox]

Where did all the material the black hole consists of come from? It have to come from somewhere?

It came from the material left over from a large star collapsing unto itself.

 

[DaveC426913]

I have multiple reasons why white holes do not exist. But first let’s go over what a white hole is. It is: the same as a black hole, but in reverse.

You are offering a solution for which there is no problem. White holes don't exist for the same reason unicorns don't exist.


But as long as you're looking for reasons, here's the big one: gravity is a one-way force. There is no counterpart to it.

 

[Mr. Paradox]

You are offering a solution for which there is no problem. White holes don't exist for the same reason unicorns don't exist.


But as long as you're looking for reasons, here's the big one: gravity is a one-way force. There is no counterpart to it.

What about dark matter?

 

[Archosaur]

No no no no no no no no

 

[DaveC426913]

What about dark matter?

What about it?

 

[mikeasabsa]

It would bo cool to see if they do exist. you are right theoreticaly they do not. but where do the black holes go? maybe a new universe. maybe that is what we call the big bang. new material from another universe.

 

[DaveC426913]

It would bo cool to see if they do exist. you are right theoreticaly they do not. but where do the black holes go? maybe a new universe. maybe that is what we call the big bang. new material from another universe.

(Careful. Overly-speculative.)

One of things that suggests the matter does not go anywhere is that its gravitational effects are still felt just as if it's clumped up in the centre of the BH. Whatever happens to the matter down there, it doesn't seem to have any detrimental effects on the matter's gravity.

 

[deneb09]

The main argument that white holes exist seems to come from the Time part of CPT symmetry. This could be a flawed argument. Additionally, There is plenty of observational evidence that leads to the conclusion that black holes exist. If white holes did exist they would be much easier to detect than black holes, yet we have no observational evidence for their existence whatsoever.

 

[Chronos]

The lack of obserational evidence for white holes is fairly compelling to me. One could argue for gamma bursters as evidence, but, i find that argument weak.

 

[humanino]

If I read Hawking's original papers, 30 years ago, he wrote there that for all purpose white holes would be indistinguishable from black holes, at least for an outside observer. The rate of matter "evaporation" from a white all is identical to the rate of radiation from a black hole. I stress again, in the original papers of Hawking 30 years ago, I don't know about now. So from this point of view, there is no more or no less observational evidence for white or black holes !