Who should we give credit for considering the possibility of Black Hole?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the historical credit for the conceptualization of black holes, examining contributions from various figures such as John Michell, Albert Einstein, Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, and others. It touches on the implications of the Chandrasekhar limit and the evolution of stellar remnants, as well as the historical context of these ideas.

Discussion Character

  • Historical
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that general relativity predicts black holes due to the deformation of spacetime by compact masses, referencing the Chandrasekhar limit for white dwarfs.
  • Others argue that the existence of the Chandrasekhar limit does not necessarily imply black holes, as neutron stars can also form from exceeding this limit.
  • A participant suggests that the question of who to credit for considering black holes is more historical than scientific, proposing that both Chandrasekhar and Einstein made significant contributions.
  • John Michell is mentioned as an early figure who recognized the possibility of black holes, although the precision of the speed of light was not well established in his time.
  • Some participants credit Michell and Pierre-Simon Laplace with early articulations of black hole concepts, while expressing concern over the focus on "who did it first" debates.
  • There is a suggestion that Oppenheimer and Snyder also contributed to the discussion of black holes.
  • A later reply emphasizes the potential for introducing black hole concepts to students at an earlier educational stage, highlighting the historical context of ideas in the late 1700s.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on who should be credited with considering the possibility of black holes, with no consensus reached on a single figure. The discussion includes both historical perspectives and scientific implications, indicating a mix of agreement on the significance of various contributions but disagreement on prioritization.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the varying interpretations of historical contributions and the dependence on the definitions of black holes and related concepts. The discussion remains open-ended regarding the implications of the Chandrasekhar limit and the evolution of stellar remnants.

avito009
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General Relativity predicted existence of Black holes. The theory of general relativity predicts that a sufficiently compact mass will deform spacetime to form a black hole. But The Chandrasekhar limit is the maximum mass of a stable white dwarf star. White dwarfs with masses greater than the limit undergo further gravitational collapse, evolving into a different type of stellar remnant, such as a neutron star or black hole. This limit was initially ignored by the community of scientists because such a limit would logically require the existence of black holes, which were considered a scientific impossibility at the time.

So who should we give credit for being able to consider the possibility of Black Hole Einstein or Chandrasekhar or
John Michell in 1783 (Much before Einstein or Chandrasekhar)?

Since Michell suggested that if there were an object with 500 times the radius of the sun, but with the sun’s average density, then its escape velocity would be faster than the speed of light.
 
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The existence of the Chandrasekhar limit does not imply black holes. As you even stated in your post, a neutron star might form if the stellar remnant exceeds the Chandrasekhar limit. The limit for neutron stars is the Tolman-Oppenheimer-Volkov limit.

However, this question is not a physics question, but a history of science question. Who we "should" give credit to for "considering the possibility of a black hole" I think is not important. I think it's sufficient to know that Chandrasekhar came up with a limiting mass for a white dwarf, and that Einstein came up with General Relativity, and that's enough. If you asked me personally to pick somebody, I would probably pick Schwarzschild.
 
John Mitchell is a good choice, but, the speed of light was not known with much precision in the 18th century. It would be fair to say Mitchell was the first to recongnize the possibility of black holes.
 
afaik Michell is generally credited, along with Pierre-Simon Laplace, with the earliest articulation of the ideas behind black hole physics.
i.e. http://hubblesite.org/explore_astronomy/black_holes/encyc_mod3_q1.html

I think way too much time and energy is wasted on asserting the various "who did it first" claims.
We can safely leave it to the historians and concentrate on the, you know, science.
 
I agree, Simon, but, you must admit it makes for interesting discussion.
 
Consider: "how little physics do you need to know about in order to understand black holes?"

You see from the above that there were enough ideas floating around in the late 1700's that we could probably explain black hole physics to them [at least the top mathemticians and physicists] fairly quickly.

More immediately, it gives us a clue about how early we can introduce students to advanced concepts.
[i.e. We can introduce black holes, carefully, at secondary school level. This is way before tensor calculus, but we have to wait until after Newtonian gravitation and the concept of the escape velocity.]

I'll submit: that's an interesting and useful thing to think about.

The point of above is to encourage you (and others) to say, not only that something is "interesting", but to support that observation: why is it interesting? What is it about the topic that holds your attention? How about: in the context of these forums?
 

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