Why do some integrals at infinity give finite values while others don't?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Mentallic
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Infinite Integration
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on understanding why some integrals evaluated at infinity yield finite values while others do not. Participants explore various functions, including exponential, trigonometric, and polynomial functions, and their behaviors as they approach infinity. The conversation touches on concepts of convergence and divergence in the context of improper integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that exponential functions like e^{-x^2} converge to a finite value as x approaches infinity, while others like 1/x and tan(x) diverge or behave differently at their limits.
  • Another participant challenges the initial claim, arguing that the functions do not share the same shape and highlighting the specific behaviors of each function at their respective limits.
  • A later reply seeks to clarify the criteria for convergence, suggesting that rational functions with a denominator degree greater than the numerator by more than one converge, though the reasoning behind this is not fully understood by all participants.
  • One participant provides examples of integrals that converge and diverge, including the integral of 1/x and x^(-1.01), discussing their behaviors as limits are taken.
  • Another participant mentions the convergence of definite integrals that are improper at one or both limits, providing examples such as ∫_0^1 1/√x dx and ∫_0^∞ 1/(√x(x + 1)) dx.
  • Discussion includes the existence of many improper integrals, some of which converge and others that do not, indicating a broader field of study related to convergence in mathematics.
  • One participant references the harmonic series as an example of divergence, contrasting it with the convergence of the series of reciprocals of squares.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behaviors of specific functions at infinity, leading to a lack of consensus on the intuitive understanding of convergence criteria. Multiple competing views remain regarding the conditions under which integrals converge or diverge.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various mathematical concepts and examples, but there are unresolved assumptions and conditions regarding the definitions of convergence and divergence, as well as the specific behaviors of the functions discussed.

Mentallic
Homework Helper
Messages
3,802
Reaction score
95
I want to understand intuitively why it seems to be that when evaluating an integral at infinite, it only seems to give a finite value for exponential functions that limit to zero as it approaches infinite. Others such as trigonometric and polynomial functions don't give finite values.

e.g.

\int_0^{\infty}e^{-x^2}dx=\frac{\sqrt{\pi}}{2}

\int_0^{\infty}\frac{dx}{x}=\lim_{k\to\infty}ln(k)

\int_0^{\pi/2}tan(x)dx=\int_0^{\infty}\left(\frac{\pi}{2}-tan^{-1}x\right)dx=\frac{1}{2}\lim_{k\to\infty}ln(k^2+1)

All these functions create the same shape that is, they tend to zero as x tends to infinite, but the difference is that the area under the graphs of the 2nd and 3rd between the x-axis and the function doesn't add to a finite value while it does for the first. How can I understand this intuitively?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
All these functions create the same shape that is, they tend to zero as x tends to infinite
No, the three functions given as an example doesn't create the same shape :
exp(-x²) tends to 1 as x tends to 0 and tends to 0 as x tends to infinity. So exp(-x²) never is infinite on the range of integration.
1/x tends to infinity as x tends to 0 and tends to 0 as x tends to infinity. So 1/x is infinite on the border x=0 of integration.
tan(x) tends to 0 as x tends to 0 and tends to infinity as x tends to pi/2. So tan(x) is infinite on the border x=pi/2 of integration.
It isn't always so simple. For example :
x/(x+1)^3 tends to 0 as x tends to 0 and tends to 0 as x tends to infinity. The integral from x=0 to x=infinity is convergent and = 1/2
x/(x+1)^2 tends to 0 as x tends to 0 and tends to 0 as x tends to infinity. The integral from x=0 to x=infinity isn't convergent (so, is infinite).
 
Wait, I made a mistake. For the 2nd integral I intended to make it from 1 to infinite, since the function 1/x has a symmetry about the line y=x.

Oh yes those were the terms I was looking for. I want to know the criteria required for an integral to be convergent when its limit tends to 0 as it approaches infinite.

That's a nice example! It seems like it extends beyond the scope of only exponential functions being convergent. Actually at any point for a rational function where the degree of the denominator is more than 1 more the numerator, it will be convergent. This I don't understand intuitively so much either, it approaches zero at a faster rate of course, but what makes it so that x-1 diverges while x-1.01 converges.
 
Mentallic said:
Wait, I made a mistake. For the 2nd integral I intended to make it from 1 to infinite, since the function 1/x has a symmetry about the line y=x.

Oh yes those were the terms I was looking for. I want to know the criteria required for an integral to be convergent when its limit tends to 0 as it approaches infinite.

That's a nice example! It seems like it extends beyond the scope of only exponential functions being convergent. Actually at any point for a rational function where the degree of the denominator is more than 1 more the numerator, it will be convergent. This I don't understand intuitively so much either, it approaches zero at a faster rate of course, but what makes it so that x-1 diverges while x-1.01 converges.

I've asked myself this questions a few years ago, and It is not be the official answers but it helped me understand the "Why".


Integral(0 to infinity) ( 1/x) dx = Ln(x) +C , where C = 0.

So we can clearly see that as the n increase, it doesn't converge to any number.
An other way of seeing it, you can find the Series for 1/x. It is the Harmonic Series. Simply try to add the sum of 1/1 + 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/4 ..etc. Does it Converge?


Now, Let's try the samething but with x^(-1.01)

Integral( 0 to infinity) (x^(-1.01)) = -100/x^0.01 + C , where C = 0.
If we take the limit, we can already see the difference.

Hope it helps.

(Sorry for no LaTeX, I've tried to make it works, but after 10 min of unsuccessful attempts, i just wrote them down)
 
Mentallic said:
Actually at any point for a rational function where the degree of the denominator is more than 1 more the numerator, it will be convergent.

Don't forget definite integrals such as \int_0^1 1/√x dx which is also improper/infinite at the left limit yet convergent.

One definite integral I find fascinating is
\int_0^\infty\frac{1}{\sqrt{x}(x + 1)}dx = \pi
because it's improper in different ways at both limits of integration, yet it's convergent. I've often wondered if there are any other such integrals that also converge.
 
I've often wondered if there are any other such integrals that also converge
There are as many such integrales as you want. An infinity in fact. Some improper integrals converge, other doesn't converge. No wonder at all.
Like many topics en maths, the convergence of improper integrals or infinite series is a field of studies with a background of knowledge to learn.
 
The matter of the second question can be seen in the sum: \sum_{i=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{i}\rightarrow \infty though the sum of the recipecals of squares converges to \frac{\pi^2}{6}

There are tests to determine convergence.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K