Why does a metal ring, slid onto a solenoid, fly off?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the phenomenon observed when a metal ring is slid onto a solenoid with alternating current, specifically exploring the reasons behind the upward force that causes the ring to fly off. The conversation involves concepts of electromagnetic induction, magnetic fields, and Lenz's law, with a focus on theoretical explanations and mathematical modeling.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the demonstration and questions why the induced current results in an upward force rather than a downward one.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical model of the solenoid's magnetic field and the induced EMF, leading to a derived expression for the upward force on the ring.
  • A question is raised about the origin of the radial magnetic field, with a suggestion that it arises from the finite length of the solenoid.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the presence of both radial and azimuthal components of the magnetic field due to the solenoid's finite length.
  • One participant challenges a statement regarding the conditions for the quasistationary approximation, seeking clarification on its dimensional correctness.
  • A correction is made regarding the conditions for the quasistatic approximation, explaining the significance of the relationship between the speed of light and the dimensions of the setup.
  • Another participant explains the upward force in terms of Lenz's law, using the analogy of two coils to illustrate the repulsive interaction between opposite currents.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the explanation of the upward force, with some providing mathematical models while others focus on conceptual understanding. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the complete understanding of the forces at play and the conditions under which the observed phenomena occur.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the finite length of the solenoid and the conditions for applying the quasistatic approximation, which may not be fully resolved. The mathematical expressions presented rely on specific parameters that have not been universally agreed upon.

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Our professor did a demonstration today for our physics II class. She was demonstrating electromagnetic induction with a solenoid and a metal ring. When she slid the ring down the solenoid and passed alternating current through the solenoid, the metal ring was flung upward off the solenoid.
My professor was attempting to demonstrate magnetic induction but she never explained the net upward force. I get that currents are induced and the resulting field opposes the original field, but why in the upward direction? why not downward?
 
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Let's see. You can take the solenoid as a magnet with a time-dependent magnetic field ##\vec{B}=B_0 \cos(\omega t) \vec{e}_z## (quasistationary approximation, valid for ##\omega/c \ll L##, where ##L## are the typical length scales of the magnet and the ring etc.

Let ##a## be the radius of the ring, with the surface normal vector taken as ##\vec{e}_z##. Then the magnetic flux through the ring is
$$\Phi=\pi a^2 B_0 \cos(\omega t),$$
and the induced EMF
$$\mathcal{E}=-\frac{1}{c}\dot{\Phi}=\frac{\pi a^2 B_0}{c} \sin(\omega t).$$
Now this EMF causes a current, which is subject to the equation
$$L \dot{I}+R I=\frac{\mathcal{E}}{R}=\frac{\pi a^2 B_0}{Rc} \sin(\omega t),$$
where ##R## is the resistance of the ring and and ##L## its self-inductance, and this gives
$$I=\frac{\pi a^2 B_0}{R^2+\omega^2 L^2} \left [L \omega \exp \left (-\frac{R t}{L} \right )+ R \cos(\omega t)-L \omega \sin(\omega t) \right].$$
Now there is a magnetic-field component also in radial direction ##B_{\rho} =B_{0\rho} \cos(\omega t)##, where ##K## is some constant. The ##z##-component of the force on a "current element" ##I \mathrm{d} \vec{\ell} = I a \mathrm{d} \varphi \vec{e}_{\varphi}## is ##\mathrm{d} F_z=-I B_{\rho} a/c \mathrm{d} \varphi##, leading to a total force ##F_z=2 \pi I a B_{\rho}/c##.
Using the above result you get after some algebra that there is indeed a steady positive ##F_z## plus some contributions oscillating with the frequency of the magnetic field from the solenoid:
$$F_z=\frac{\pi^2 a^3 B_0 B_{0\rho} \omega L}{(R^2+\omega^2 L^2) c^2}+\text{time-dependent contributions}.$$
So there's indeed a resulting upward force (don't nail me on all the constants in front of the expression, I'd have to check carefully again ;-)).
 
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where does the radial magnetic field comes from? The fact that the solenoid is not infinitely long ?
 
Last edited:
vanhees71 said:
valid for ω/c≪L

where does this statement come from? Is it dimensionally correct (i am assuming that c is speed of light
 
Argh, it must of course be ##c/\omega \gg L##. This comes from the typical length scale over which retardation effects are important, i.e., ##c/\omega=\lambda/2\pi \gg L## means that the typical extensions of your setup is much smaller than the wave length, over which the wave changes significantly, i.e., you can consider the changes over the extensions of the setup as instantaneous along this extension ("near field approximation"="quasitstatic approximation").
 
"I get that currents are induced and the resulting field opposes the original field, but why in the upward direction? why not downward?"

Think of two coils on the same axis. If the current in the lower coil increases, there will be an increasing flux through the upper coil. By lenz's law,
There will be an induced current in the upper coil that is opposite to the current in the lower coil. The magnetic force between parallel wires with opposite currents is repulsive, pushing the upper coil up.
 

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