Why Does dV Equal ∂V/∂x(dx) + ∂V/∂y(dy)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical expression for the total differential of a function V(x,y) in the context of differential equations. Participants explore the relationship between the total change in V and its partial derivatives with respect to x and y, examining the implications of this relationship in both theoretical and practical terms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the expression dV = ∂V/∂x(dx) + ∂V/∂y(dy), questioning the cancellation of dx with ∂x.
  • Another participant suggests that the change in V due to small changes in x and y can be understood through the definition of partial derivatives.
  • A later reply provides an example function to illustrate how the total differential can be derived, emphasizing the dropping of higher-order terms.
  • Some participants propose that the concept of exact differentials is related to finding a function V(x,y) from given partial derivatives.
  • There is a suggestion to refer to multivariable calculus notes, indicating that the expression relates to the definition of df and gradient notation.
  • One participant raises a concern about the definition of partial derivatives, suggesting that it may be more loosely defined in mathematics compared to its application in physics.
  • Several participants express gratitude for the explanations, indicating a clearer understanding of the concepts discussed.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on the meaning of V(x,y) in the context of dV, leading to a definition of dV as the incremental change in V from changes in x and y.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of the total differential and its relation to partial derivatives, but there are differing views on the interpretation of certain terms and the rigor of definitions. The discussion remains somewhat unresolved regarding the conceptual clarity of partial derivatives versus their application in physics.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the potential ambiguity in the concept of cancellation in the context of differentials and partial derivatives, suggesting a need for clearer definitions and understanding of these terms.

Tony Hau
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So in my lecture notes on Differential Equations, it states that a first order ODE is exact if A(x,y)dx + B(x,y)dy = 0 and ∂A/∂y = ∂B/∂x. Okay I accept this definition.

Then, there is a sentence like this:
Our goal is to find the function V(x,y) satisfying
Adx + Bdy = dV = ∂V/∂x(dx) + ∂V/∂y(dy), where A(x,y) =∂V/∂x and B(x,y) =∂V/∂y.
I am confused here. Why dV = ∂V/∂x(dx) + ∂V/∂y(dy)? I think you can say that dx cancels with ∂x and dy cancels with ∂y and so it is the total change in infinitesimal V in both x and y direction. Is my concept correct? I am okay with the idea that dx cancels with dx but still, I am not really convinced that dx cancels with ∂x.
 
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The intuition is basically that if you change ##x## by a small amount ##dx##, then ##V## changes by the amount ##\frac{\partial V}{\partial x}dx## to first order (just think about the definition of partial derivative), and similarly for ##y##. So if you change both ##x## and ##y## simultaneously, then you get your formula for ##dV##.

A little more rigorously, the multivariate chain rule tells you that if ##x## and ##y## are functions of ##t##, then ##\frac{dV}{dt}=\frac{\partial V}{\partial x}\frac{dx}{dt}+\frac{\partial V}{\partial y}\frac{dy}{dt}.## This is essentially the same formula you have, written with derivatives instead of differentials.
 
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Tony Hau said:
So in my lecture notes on Differential Equations, it states that a first order ODE is exact if A(x,y)dx + B(x,y)dy = 0 and ∂A/∂y = ∂B/∂x. Okay I accept this definition.

Then, there is a sentence like this:
Our goal is to find the function V(x,y) satisfying
Adx + Bdy = dV = ∂V/∂x(dx) + ∂V/∂y(dy), where A(x,y) =∂V/∂x and B(x,y) =∂V/∂y.
I am confused here. Why dV = ∂V/∂x(dx) + ∂V/∂y(dy)? I think you can say that dx cancels with ∂x and dy cancels with ∂y and so it is the total change in infinitesimal V in both x and y direction. Is my concept correct? I am okay with the idea that dx cancels with dx but still, I am not really convinced that dx cancels with ∂x.

You can check out the idea with an example function. E.g. let
$$V(x, y) = xy^2 + x^3y$$
Then we have:
$$V(x + dx, y + dy) = (x + dx)(y + dy)^2 + (x + dx)^3(y + dy)$$
$$ = (x + dx)(y^2 + 2ydy) + (x^3 + 3x^2dx)(y + dy)$$
$$ = xy^2 + y^2dx + 2xydy + x^3y + x^3dy + 3x^2ydx$$
$$ = V(x, y) + (y^2 + 3x^2y)dx + (2xy + x^3)dy$$
$$ = V(x, y) + \frac{\partial V}{\partial x}dx + \frac{\partial V}{\partial y}dy$$
Where we dropped higher order differential terms.

I would get away from the idea that ##dx## and ##\partial x## "cancel" and think in terms of the multivariable chain rule.
 
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PS the idea of the exact differential is to work this in reverse. Suppose we start with:
$$dV = (y^2 + 3x^2y)dx + (2xy + x^3)dy$$
Then, knowing that in general we have:
$$dV = \frac{\partial V}{\partial x}dx + \frac{\partial V}{\partial y}dy$$
We can equate these two and look for ##V(x, y)##, such that:
$$\frac{\partial V}{\partial x} = y^2 + 3x^2y, \ \text{and} \ \frac{\partial V}{\partial y} = 2xy + x^3$$
 
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Well, I think you should look at your notes in multivariable calculus, the equation you have is basically the definition of ##df##, which can be defined as
$$df = \vec{\nabla} f \cdot d\vec{x}$$
or at least, any other definition should imply this relation very easily.
 
Gaussian97 said:
Well, I think you should look at your notes in multivariable calculus, the equation you have is basically the definition of ##df##, which can be defined as
$$df = \vec{\nabla} f \cdot d\vec{x}$$
or at least, any other definition should imply this relation very easily.
We didn't have such relationship. My professor in last semester just said that if we held x constant in f(x,y) and differentiate w.r.t y, we have ∂f(x,y)/∂y. I think the concept of ∂f(x,y) alone is rather loosely defined in mathematics and is more 'physics'. It is like the concept of 'cancelling dx with dx', which we do frequently in physics but not in maths.
 
Thanks for all your great answers! Especially the first few answers! I get the clear concept now.
 
Tony Hau said:
Thanks for your reply, but why is there a V(x,y) in the dV term? What does that mean?

By definition:
$$V(x +dx, y+dy) = V(x, y) + dV$$
That's what ##dV## means. It's the incremental change in ##V(x, y)## from incremental changes in ##x## and ##y##.
 
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PeroK said:
By definition:
$$V(x +dx, y+dy) = V(x, y) + dV$$
That's what ##dV## means. It's the incremental change in ##V(x, y)## from incremental changes in ##x## and ##y##.
Got it! Thanks for your help!
 

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