Why Does Energy Seem to Disappear in a Gyroscopic Wheel Experiment?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around an experiment involving a gyroscopic wheel with heavy discs that are designed to spin tangentially. Participants explore the energy dynamics of the system, particularly why energy seems to "disappear" when maintaining the wheel's rotation, despite the absence of friction. The conversation touches on concepts of energy conservation, gyroscopic resistance, and the implications of torque in the system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a setup where energy must be continuously added to maintain the wheel's RPM due to the gyroscopic resistance of the discs.
  • Another participant suggests that even with minimized friction, some energy is lost to heat due to unavoidable friction with the environment.
  • A participant questions where the energy spent to counteract gyroscopic torque goes, emphasizing that energy cannot simply disappear.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of gyroscopes spinning in opposite directions and how this affects the system's stability and energy requirements.
  • There is a contention regarding whether energy is required to sustain the precession of the gyros, with differing opinions on the nature of work done by the gyroscopes.
  • One participant emphasizes that the resistance offered by gyroscopes is perpendicular to the applied force, suggesting that work is not done if there is no movement in the direction of the force.
  • A later reply introduces Newton's laws and conservation principles, suggesting that any perceived violation of conservation laws may stem from a misunderstanding of the system's analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the energy dynamics of the gyroscopic system, particularly regarding the role of friction, the nature of gyroscopic resistance, and the implications for energy conservation. There is no consensus on the explanations provided, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the system and the potential for misanalysis, indicating that assumptions about energy loss and the behavior of gyroscopes may need further exploration.

  • #61
I have tried to analyze:

I use a clock as reference. At 12 o'clock (Of the flywheel) the piston starts to accelerate. At 3 o'clock the piston has the highest possible velocity and KE.
This KE is transferred back to the flywheel between 3 o'clock and 6 o'clock. The cycle repeats with acceleration from 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock. Maximum KE at 9 o'clock. KE is transferred back to the flywheel between 9 o'clock and 12 o'clock.
The net energy is zero - zero loss. Can't believe I have not seen that. The similar will apply to the seesaw, and probably the gyro as well...
 
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  • #62
Well done. You stuck at it and got there. :smile:
 
  • #63
I found an interesting and well explaining article about gyros:

"A gyro will resist any force that attempts to change the direction of its spin axis. However, it will move (precess) in response to such force; NOT in the direction of the applied force, but at right angles to it. The direction a gyro will precess also depends on the direction the gyro is spinning. Precession is actually the result of two forces: angular momentum (spinning force) and the applied force (torque). The direction of precession is always offset from the direction of the applied force. The offset is always in the direction of rotor spin. For example, when a force is applied upward on the inner gimbal, as shown in figure 3-8, the force may be visualized as applied in an arc about axis Y-Y. This applied force is opposed by the resistance of gyroscopic inertia, preventing the gyro from rotating about axis Y-Y. With the rotor spinning clockwise, the precession will take place 90º clockwise from the point of applied force. The gyro precesses about axis Z-Z in the direction of the arrow "P"."

14187_137_1.jpg


Vidar
 

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