Why Does n!/n^n Approach Zero?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the limit of the expression n!/n^n using the sandwich theorem. Participants are exploring the growth rates of factorial functions and their limits as n approaches infinity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the assumptions about the growth rates of n! compared to n^n and discussing the implications of the sandwich theorem. Some express confusion over the limits used in their reasoning.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with various interpretations of the limit being explored. Some participants suggest that the limit approaches zero, while others challenge this conclusion and provide alternative reasoning. There is no explicit consensus yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants have noted the need to specify the limit as n approaches infinity and have discussed the bounds of n! in relation to n^n. There are references to Stirling's formula and its implications for the limit, but the discussion remains open-ended.

Tomp
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Homework Statement

Using the sandwich rule (which i understand) find the limit of n!/nn

The attempt at a solution

To my knowledge n! is the fastest growing function you can have, so I immediately thought the function did not have a limit, however, the answer states the limit to be 1

I know that the bound on n! would be 1 =< n! < inf (?) but then dividing through by nn doesn't really help.

I am stuck :/

What am I doing wrong?
 
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FALSE ALARM

After a bit of searching on the internet, the answer in the book is wrong. phew!

Answer is 0 as i initially thought
 
What limits did you compare it to, for the Sandwich theorem?
 
Tomp said:
Homework Statement

Using the sandwich rule (which i understand) find the limit of n!/nn

Just asking what the limit of f(x) is, gives no meaning. You need to specify to what value n approaches?
 
Infinitum said:
Just asking what the limit of f(x) is, gives no meaning. You need to specify to what value n approaches?

apologies as n approaches infinity
 
sharks said:
What limits did you compare it to, for the Sandwich theorem?

i said the lower limit for n! was 1 and the upper limit was infinity...
 
Tomp said:
apologies as n approaches infinity

Aye, 0 is correct, then. :smile:

If, supposedly, n->0, then the limit would be 1 :wink:

To my knowledge n! is the fastest growing function you can have

From this reasoning(incorrect), I don't see how you got 0 as your answer though...
 
Tomp said:
i said the lower limit for n! was 1 and the upper limit was infinity...

And how did you end up with those limits? Just curious. :smile:
 
Tomp said:
Homework Statement

Using the sandwich rule (which i understand) find the limit of n!/nn

The attempt at a solution

To my knowledge n! is the fastest growing function you can have, so I immediately thought the function did not have a limit, however, the answer states the limit to be 1

I know that the bound on n! would be 1 =< n! < inf (?) but then dividing through by nn doesn't really help.

I am stuck :/

What am I doing wrong?

Isn't it quite intuitive that 0 is correct?
 
  • #10
Tomp said:
Homework Statement

Using the sandwich rule (which i understand) find the limit of n!/nn

The attempt at a solution

To my knowledge n! is the fastest growing function you can have
Then your knowledge is incorrect. n! is the product of n terms each less than or equal to n. n^n is the product of n terms, each equal to n. For all n, n!&lt; n^n.

, so I immediately thought the function did not have a limit, however, the answer states the limit to be 1

I know that the bound on n! would be 1 =< n! < inf (?) but then dividing through by nn doesn't really help.

I am stuck :/

What am I doing wrong?
 
  • #11
Tomp said:
Homework Statement

Using the sandwich rule (which i understand) find the limit of n!/nn

The attempt at a solution

To my knowledge n! is the fastest growing function you can have, so I immediately thought the function did not have a limit, however, the answer states the limit to be 1

I know that the bound on n! would be 1 =< n! < inf (?) but then dividing through by nn doesn't really help.

I am stuck :/

What am I doing wrong?
n! is NOT the fastest growing function you can have; there are infinitely many functions that grow much faster than n! (for example, (n!)^2 or exp(n!) or n^(n!) to name a few).

Anyway, do you know Stirling's formula? It says
n! \sim \sqrt{2 \pi}\: n^{n + 1/2} e^{-n}, for large n, where "~" means "is asymptotic to", which in turn means that the ratio of the two sides has limit 1 as n → ∞. Thus, \frac{n!}{n^n} \sim \sqrt{2 \pi} \: \sqrt{n} e^{-n} \rightarrow 0 as n \rightarrow \infty..

If you feel a bit suspicious about the use of "~" you can squeeze the ratio between two easily-analyzed expressions, because the original Stirling approximation can be turned into a rigorous pair of inequalities that are true for all n > 1:
\sqrt{2 \pi}\: n^{n + 1/2} e^{-n} &lt; n! &lt; \sqrt{2 \pi} \: n^{n + 1/2} e^{-n + (1/(12 n))} \:\:\forall n &gt; 1. For a simple proof, see,. eg., W. Feller, "Introduction to Probability Theory and its Applications", Volume I, Wiley (1968).

RGV
 
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