Why does time dilation only affect one of the twins?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the twin paradox in the theory of relativity, specifically addressing why one twin (the traveling twin) appears younger than the other twin (the stationary twin) upon reunion. It explores concepts of time dilation, the relativity of simultaneity, and the implications of inertial versus non-inertial frames of reference.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about why both twins perceive time dilation for each other, yet only the traveling twin is younger upon return.
  • One participant highlights the importance of the relativity of simultaneity, noting that the traveling twin (B) changes rest frames, which affects the perception of time.
  • Another participant clarifies that B's frame is non-inertial, leading to different rules compared to inertial frames.
  • It is noted that the twin paradox states that the twin who moves non-inertially will actually be younger than the inertial twin, not just appear younger.
  • Some participants discuss the effects of changing distances on the perceived rates of each other's clocks due to light speed delays.
  • One participant distinguishes between time dilation as a symmetrical observational effect and differential aging as an asymmetrical real effect due to different paths through spacetime.
  • Another participant provides a detailed example involving a rod and calculations of perceived time to illustrate the symmetry in observations despite the asymmetry in aging.
  • Some participants suggest considering the problem without non-inertial frames to clarify the apparent non-symmetrical time dilation.
  • There is mention of the importance of spacetime diagrams and how they differ for inertial and non-inertial travelers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the twin paradox involves complex interactions of time dilation and simultaneity, but multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretation of these effects and the implications of inertial versus non-inertial frames. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the best way to understand these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the reliance on definitions of inertial and non-inertial frames, the complexity of simultaneity, and the assumptions made in calculations regarding perceived time and aging.

  • #31
Dale said:
No. There is no standard method for forming a non inertial frame. That is part of the problem.

My preferred approach is radar coordinates. This avoids the overlaps and gaps of the naive approach, and it is the only convention I know thrust respects the second postulate.

Thanks, Dale.

Perhaps you can help clarify post #10 for me. It appears to me to propose a mapping and then lists some problems that the mapping reveals. Are the problems universal (missing worldlines and events, events appearing twice) or are these more a reflection of the choice of mapping?

While I would love to see your radar version of the twins paradox diagram I posted, I know that's asking a lot. I looked up radar coordinates, but it would be really helpful to see the diagram that I posted converted to your preferred approach by someone who actually knows what he is doing.
 
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  • #32
Freixas said:
Are the problems universal (missing worldlines and events, events appearing twice) or are these more a reflection of the choice of mapping?
Those are a pathology of the "naive" approach to constructing a non-inertial frame.

Freixas said:
While I would love to see your radar version of the twins paradox diagram I posted, I know that's asking a lot. I looked up radar coordinates, but it would be really helpful to see the diagram that I posted converted to your preferred approach by someone who actually knows what he is doing.
See https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0104077 figure 9 in particular.

Note that in radar coordinates the traveling twin's world line in the home twin's frame (figure 1) is not the mirror image of the home twin's worldline in the traveling twin's frame (figure 9). That is one clear asymmetry between the twins. If you used a different method for constructing the traveling twin's frame then you would get a violation of the second postulate which would be another clear asymmetry.
 
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  • #33
Dale said:
Those are a pathology of the "naive" approach to constructing a non-inertial frame.

Thanks. I felt that the observations made in post #10 were artificial, but didn't have the knowledge needed to phrase my objection properly.

Dale said:
See https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0104077 figure 9 in particular.

This paper is familiar; I remember trying to understand it some years ago when you referenced it in a different thread. Maybe it will make more sense now.

Appreciate the help from everyone.
 
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