Why Does Work Have Positive and Negative Values?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of work in physics, particularly focusing on why work can have both positive and negative values. Participants reference the dot product of force and distance, and the specific case of work done on and by a spring as described in their textbook.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the nature of scalars and their signs, questioning how work, despite being a scalar, can be positive or negative. There is a discussion about the implications of directionality in the context of work and energy transfer.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the definitions and properties of scalars. Some have offered examples to illustrate their points, while others are questioning the assumptions made about the nature of scalars and their relationship to work.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the definitions and properties of scalars, particularly in relation to physical concepts like work and energy. There is a focus on the nuances of how these concepts are represented mathematically and conceptually.

Calpalned
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Homework Statement


Fact: Being the dot product of force and distance, work is a scalar. Fragment from my textbook: The work done on the spring is ##\frac{1}{2}kx^2##, and so the work done by the spring is ##-\frac{1}{2}kx^2##.

Homework Equations


##W = f \cdot d ##

The Attempt at a Solution


I thought scalars don't have directions. Why is the "work done on" positive, while the "work done by" is negative?
 
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Calpalned said:

Homework Statement


Fact: Being the dot product of force and distance, work is a scalar. Fragment from my textbook: The work done on the spring is ##\frac{1}{2}kx^2##, and so the work done by the spring is ##-\frac{1}{2}kx^2##.

Homework Equations


##W = f \cdot d ##

The Attempt at a Solution


I thought scalars don't have directions. Why is the "work done on" positive, while the "work done by" is negative?
Scalars don't have direction but they do have + or - signs!
 
rude man said:
Scalars don't have direction but they do have + or - signs!

rude man said:
Scalars don't have direction but they do have + or - signs!

I thought that scalars are magnitudes (aka absolute values)...
 
Calpalned said:
I thought that scalars are magnitudes (aka absolute values)...
It's the "aka" part of your statement that's erroneous.

The magnitude of a vector is an absolute value and scalars are often described as having magnitude, but not direction.

That's not to say that all magnitudes are absolute values.
 
Calpalned said:
I thought that scalars are magnitudes (aka absolute values)...
Not so. Temperature in Celsius for example is a scalar. It can be + or -, right? Or altitude - can be above or below sea level. Etc.
 
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Calpalned said:

Homework Statement


Fact: Being the dot product of force and distance, work is a scalar. Fragment from my textbook: The work done on the spring is ##\frac{1}{2}kx^2##, and so the work done by the spring is ##-\frac{1}{2}kx^2##.

Homework Equations


##W = f \cdot d ##

The Attempt at a Solution


I thought scalars don't have directions. Why is the "work done on" positive, while the "work done by" is negative?
When you stretch a spring, you're doing work on the spring. According to Newton's third law, the spring exerts a force on you and therefore does work on you. The action and reaction forces point in opposite directions, but the displacement is the same in either case, so the work done on the spring by you and the work done by the spring on you are always negatives of each other.

Another way to look at it is that work is the transfer of energy. Energy goes from one thing to another, so in that sense there's a direction to work. It's like if I handed you a $1 bill. Money went from me to you, but you wouldn't say a $1 bill has a direction.
 
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