Why doesn't the earth spiral into the sun?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of why the Earth does not spiral into the Sun, particularly focusing on the effects of space density and potential friction on Earth's orbital motion. Participants explore various factors influencing Earth's speed and trajectory over long timescales.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that while Earth does lose energy due to interactions in space, the effect is negligible over billions of years.
  • Others argue that the mass of the Earth makes it resistant to significant changes in speed due to the small amount of matter it encounters in space.
  • A participant provides a calculation comparing the mass of matter Earth interacts with to its total mass, suggesting that the impact is minimal.
  • It is noted that tidal effects from the Sun may actually cause the Earth to spiral outward rather than inward.
  • Another participant mentions that the Sun's loss of mass over time contributes to a decrease in gravitational pull, which could also lead to an outward movement of Earth.
  • Some express skepticism about referring to the interactions in space as "friction," suggesting that other forces like solar radiation pressure and gravitational influences from other celestial bodies may have comparable or greater effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the effects of space density on Earth's speed are minimal, but there is no consensus on the overall dynamics of Earth's trajectory, with multiple competing views on the influences at play.

Contextual Notes

Assumptions about the density of matter in space and the constancy of various forces over time are not fully explored, leaving some aspects of the discussion unresolved.

janvd
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Hi all!

If space isn't a true vacuum, why doesn't our Earth lose its speed due to friction?
I know that it's a near vacuum outside our atmosphere and the friction would be almost negligable. But in the course of a billion years, shouldn't it have an effect?
Why aren't we slowing down because of this? or are we?
 
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It does lose energy. It's just so small as to have almost no effect. Even over a billion years.
 
Hi janvd.

It really is negligible.

Consider the scales here. 4,5 billion (109) years might sound like a lot of time, but the Earth is a seriously hefty lump of rock. It weighs 6*1024kg. It takes a lot to slow down such a juggernaut.

Let's compare the densities of Earth:
5,5 * 106 g/m3 (or, five and a half tons per cubic metre)
and vacuum:
3*1,5 * 10-24 g/m3 (or, three hydrogen atoms per cubic metre)

The Earth travels at 30 km/s through space, so each second it hits:

(∏*36*1012 m2) {Earth cross-section} * (3*107 m) {distance traveled in 1 second} * (3*1,5 * 10-24 g/m3) {density of vacuum} = 0,015 grams of matter.

multiply that by Earth's age:
0,015 * 4,5*109 {years} * 365 {days in a year} * 24 {hours in a day} * 3600 {seconds in an hour} = 2 * 1012 kg

Or, the Earth managed to hit some two billion tons of hydrogen during its life so far*.
Compare that to Earth's total mass: 6 000 000 000 000 billion tons.
That's 3 trillion times more.

Quite negligible, I'd say.


*that's of course assuming there has always been the same density of dust in vacuum, which is obviously not true, but is not a terribly bad approximation for this kind of calculations.


Additionally, it's worth noting that tidal effects of the Sun have much more significant effect on Earth, transferring its rotational angular momentum into its orbital angular momentum(which translates to increasing orbit radius). So overall, the Earth is actually spiralling outwards.
 
Not to mention the Sun is losing mass over time, leading to less gravity, also causing us to move outwards from it.
 
Thanks for the replies!
 
I doubt with such a low density we can even call it a "friction".
Other forces probably have comparable or greater effect. For instance, constant bombardment of photons from sun, magnetic fields interactions, gravity from other planets...
 

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