Why is G abelian if |G/Z(G)|=p with p prime?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of the theorem stating that if |G/Z(G)|=p with p prime, then G is abelian. Participants explore the conditions under which this theorem holds, particularly in relation to the center of the group Z(G) and the structure of G.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the theorem |G/Z(G)|=p implies G/Z(G) is cyclic, leading to G being abelian, but express confusion about the implications for Z(G).
  • One participant questions the scenario where |G|=p^3 and |Z(G)|=p^2, suggesting it leads to a contradiction regarding G being abelian while Z(G) is not equal to G.
  • Another participant argues that the situation described cannot occur, stating that it proves |Z(G)| must equal p^2, thus G is abelian.
  • Some participants discuss the exact sequence of groups and its implications for whether G is abelian, particularly in relation to whether the sequence is split.
  • There is a discussion about the definitions of split sequences and their implications for the structure of G, with some participants clarifying their understanding of these concepts.
  • One participant emphasizes that if the kernel is in the center of the group, then a split sequence implies a direct product, while this may not hold otherwise.
  • Another participant notes that if a subgroup acts on another subgroup by conjugation and the latter is in Z(G), the action must be trivial, supporting the idea of G being abelian.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion and differing interpretations regarding the implications of the theorem and the nature of split sequences. There is no consensus on the resolution of these ambiguities, and multiple competing views remain regarding the structure of G and its center.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference theorems and concepts such as exact sequences, cyclic groups, and the relationship between a group and its center, but there are unresolved assumptions and conditions that affect the clarity of the discussion.

Menelaus
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I am aware of the theorem |G/Z(G)|=p with p prime implies G/Z(G) is cyclic and thus G is abelian, but I do not understand why. Is there not a theorem that says G abelian \Leftrightarrow Z(G)=G? So what if |G|=p^{3} and |Z(G)|=p^{2}? This implies |G/Z(G)|=p implying G is abelian however G\neqZ(G). What is the ambiguity here?
 
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Menelaus said:
I am aware of the theorem |G/Z(G)|=p with p prime implies G/Z(G) is cyclic and thus G is abelian, but I do not understand why. Is there not a theorem that says G abelian \Leftrightarrow Z(G)=G? So what if |G|=p^{3} and |Z(G)|=p^{2}? This implies |G/Z(G)|=p implying G is abelian however G\neqZ(G). What is the ambiguity here?

There is no ambiguity. The situation you mention can just never occur. You have just proven that it can never oocur that |G|=p3 and |Z(G)|=p2.

You can use this, for example to prove that all groups of order p2 are abelian. Indeed, Z(G) is a subgroup of G, so there are three possibilities:
  • |Z(G)|=1 It can be proven that this can never happen (a group with prime order must always have nontrivial center)
  • |Z(G)|=p Then your theorem says the group is abelian, thus |Z(G)|=p2, which is a contradiction.
  • |Z(G)|=p2 is the only remaining possibility.
 
Ah I see! Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Menelaus said:
I am aware of the theorem |G/Z(G)|=p with p prime implies G/Z(G) is cyclic and thus G is abelian, but I do not understand why. Is there not a theorem that says G abelian \Leftrightarrow Z(G)=G? So what if |G|=p^{3} and |Z(G)|=p^{2}? This implies |G/Z(G)|=p implying G is abelian however G\neqZ(G). What is the ambiguity here?

Try looking at the exact sequence of groups,

0 -> Z(G) -> G -> G/Z(G) -> 1

- Any group of prime order is cyclic so G/Z(G) is cyclic.
- If the sequence is split then the group is isomorphic to the direct product Z(G) x G/Z(G)
so G is abelian and Z(G) = G
- If the sequence is not split what happens?
 
lavinia said:
- If the sequence is split then the group is isomorphic to the direct product Z(G) x G/Z(G)
so G is abelian and Z(G) = G
- If the sequence is not split what happens?

I do not follow, I don't believe I've ever looked at this sequence or talked about what a split sequence is. Micromass cleared up the problem I was having though.
 
lavinia said:
Try looking at the exact sequence of groups,

0 -> Z(G) -> G -> G/Z(G) -> 1

- Any group of prime order is cyclic so G/Z(G) is cyclic.
- If the sequence is split then the group is isomorphic to the direct product Z(G) x G/Z(G)
so G is abelian and Z(G) = G
- If the sequence is not split what happens?

lavina, do you mean not left-split (because right-splits need not be direct products)?
 
Deveno said:
lavina, do you mean not left-split (because right-splits need not be direct products)?

To me split means that there is an inverse of the projection onto G/Z(G)

Since Z(G) is in the center of the group split means direct product - I think.

What you get is that there is a subgroup isomorphic to G/Z(G) that commutes with every other element of the group. this should be a direct product.

If the sequence is not split then a lift of a generator of the quotient has some power that lies in Z(G) but again it commutes with everything so G is abelian.
 
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Menelaus said:
I do not follow, I don't believe I've ever looked at this sequence or talked about what a split sequence is. Micromass cleared up the problem I was having though.

I am sorry. I thought he only cleared up a special case. Anyway. This is a different way of looking at the problem that I thought you might find interesting.
 
lavinia said:
To me split means that there is an inverse of the projection onto G/Z(G)

Since Z(G) is in the center of the group split means direct product - I think.

What you get is that there is a subgroup isomorphic to G/Z(G) that commutes with every other element of the group. this should be a direct product.

If the sequence is not split then a lift of a generator of the quotient has some power that lies in Z(G) but again it commutes with everything so G is abelian.

ah, so you DID mean right-split. let me assure you that right-split ≠ direct product.

consider the following short exact sequence:

0→Cn→Dn→Dn/Cn→0.

(where we map a generator of Cn, to a generating rotation of Dn).

define:

f:Dn/Cn→Dn by:

f(Cn) = 1
f(Cns) = s

then if p is the canonical projection: p(f(Cnx)) = Cnx.

but Dn is certainly not a direct product of abelian groups.
 
  • #10
Deveno said:
ah, so you DID mean right-split. let me assure you that right-split ≠ direct product.

consider the following short exact sequence:

0→Cn→Dn→Dn/Cn→0.

(where we map a generator of Cn, to a generating rotation of Dn).

define:

f:Dn/Cn→Dn by:

f(Cn) = 1
f(Cns) = s

then if p is the canonical projection: p(f(Cnx)) = Cnx.

but Dn is certainly not a direct product of abelian groups.

If The kernel is in the center of the group then split means direct product. Otherwise not necessarily.I think the proof is straight forward.
 
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  • #11
lavinia said:
If The kernel is in the center of the group then split means direct product. Otherwise not necessarily.I think the proof is straight forward.

i see how this is true, because if H acts on N by conjugation, and N is in Z(G), the action has to be trivial.
 
  • #12
Deveno said:
i see how this is true, because if H acts on N by conjugation, and N is in Z(G), the action has to be trivial.

yes. that's it.
 

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