Why is my experimental spring constant an order of magnitude off?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around an experimental investigation into the spring constant of a spring used to launch a projectile. The participant compares the spring constant derived from experimental data with a directly measured value, seeking to understand a significant discrepancy between the two values. The scope includes experimental methodology, data analysis, and considerations of error in measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • The participant calculated the spring constant using the relationship between gravitational potential energy and elastic potential energy, resulting in a value of 500 N/m.
  • Direct measurement of the spring constant yielded a value of 5000 N/m, leading to a concern about a 90% discrepancy.
  • Some participants question the units of the slope used in the calculations, suggesting a potential misunderstanding in the relationship between height and spring compression.
  • One participant notes that the relative mass of the ball to the spring could affect the results, referencing guidelines from a spring design handbook regarding mass considerations.
  • Discussion includes the importance of an error budget, identifying various sources of potential measurement errors that could contribute to the observed discrepancy.
  • The original poster expresses relief at identifying a mistake related to the assumption of the spring being fully decompressed, suggesting a path forward for correcting the spring constant measurement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the sources of error and the implications of the results. There is no consensus on the exact cause of the discrepancy, and multiple factors are suggested as potential contributors to the observed differences in spring constant values.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings regarding the units of the slope in the calculations, assumptions about the spring's behavior, and the need for a comprehensive error budget to assess measurement accuracy.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students conducting similar experiments in physics, educators providing guidance on experimental design, and anyone interested in the practical applications of spring mechanics and error analysis in experimental physics.

Liddleton
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
TL;DR
In my Physics IA, I investigated the relationship between the MAXIMUM height reached by a projectile (launched by a spring) and the COMPRESSION of that spring.

To evaluate my results I compared a spring constant, found using the relationship, against the spring constant found directly

However, my experimental spring constant differs (almost exactly) by an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE from the directly measured value. The cause of this percentage error is unclear, any help would be much appreciated!
I did my Physics IA on comparing the maximum height reached by a projectile (shot by a spring) and the compression of that spring.

In my experiment I found the maximum height reached by a metal ball shot directly upwards in comparison to the amount the spring was compressed.

To test the accuracy of my results, I compared the spring constant found through my experiment to the spring constant found directly (measuring the force needed to compress the spring over a certain distance).

To find the spring constant using my experiment data, I set the gravitational potential energy of the ball at its maximum height equal to the elastic potential energy:
𝑚𝑔ℎ=(1/2)𝑘(𝑥^2)
where:
𝑚 = mass,
𝑔 = acceleration of gravity,
ℎ = height of ball,
𝑘 = spring constant,
𝑥 = compression of spring.

Rearranging for 𝑘
2𝑚𝑔ℎ=𝑘(𝑥^2)
2𝑚𝑔ℎ/(𝑥^2)=𝑘
𝑘=(2𝑚𝑔)(ℎ/𝑥^2).

I separated ℎ/(𝑥^2) because it is the slope of the graph of the maximum height reached (y-axis) against the spring compression squared (x-axis), which I found.

Using these methods, experimentally, I got a value of 𝑘=500 N/m, whereas for my spring constant found directly (Force/compression of spring) I got a value of 5000N/m.

Can anyone help me try understand why there is such a big difference?

My found value is 90% off from the value which I'm expected to get and I can't think of anything that would introduce that much error.

If anyone wants the data:

The mass of the ball is 10.67g = 0.01067kg

and the value for the slope of ℎ/𝑥2 = 2500

IMPORTANT: If the mass of the ball was 100 grams instead of 10 I would get almost completely accurate results. But unfortunately I confirmed that the ball does in fact weight 10 grams, and so this is not the cause of uncertainty.

One last thing, If anyone happens to be an IB physics or science teacher in general, would you say 90% error is too large to take the data as acceptable? I know that the data doesn't have to be accurate but 90% feels like too much to me.

UPDATE: Im pretty sure I found the problem. With the apparatus I used to launch the ball, the spring is never fully decompressed, so the spring constant value I was finding was actually incorrect, I will try find a solution which allows me to find the correct spring constant directly - hopefully without having to dismantle the spring launcher.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Liddleton said:
the value for the ℎ/𝑥2
= 2500.
What units?

Liddleton said:
ℎ/(𝑥^2) ... is the slope of the graph of the maximum height reached (y-axis) against the spring compression (x-axis),
This is incorrect. You can see that ##ℎ/𝑥^2## and the slope of this graph have different units.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: berkeman
Thanks for pointing out my minor mistakes, unfortunately they are in my conveying of the issue, and not in my processing of data. I meant to say the 'slope of the graph of the maximum height reached (y-axis) against the spring compression squared (x-axis) since this gives me a linear equation.
 
Liddleton said:
If the mass of the ball was 100 grams instead of 10 I would get almost completely accurate results.
A factor that could account for some of your observations is the relative mass of the ball and the spring. From the SMI Handbook of Spring Design: "These equations assume that the spring is massless and should only be used when the spring mass is less than 1/4 of the mass to be accelerated." That book then discusses calculations for accelerating loads that are large relative to the mass of the spring.

Liddleton said:
One last thing, If anyone happens to be an IB physics or science teacher in general, would you say 90% error is too large to take the data as acceptable? I know that the data doesn't have to be accurate but 90% feels like too much to me.
You need to compare the error to the estimated error budget. The error budget is the total of all errors. Some errors include:
Measurement error for peak height
Measurement error for spring rate
Friction between spring and housing
Measurement error for amount of spring compression
Measurement error for spring fully extended position
Correction factor for ratio of mass of ball to mass of spring
And more...

When your measured results are within your estimated error budget for at least two different weight balls, you probably have found all of the most significant error sources. Probably.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dale and Liddleton
thanks you for the help! Luckily I think I've found the mistake, which was just due to a false assumption I made, luckily it is an easy fix! Nonetheless, thank you for the clarification on the evaluation for my IA, you helped me form a clearer understanding of what goal I am trying to reach in my evaluation.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: berkeman

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
6K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K