Why Is Normal Force Less Than mg at the Top of a Hill?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of normal force in the context of a car traveling over the top of a hill. Participants explore why the normal force can be less than the gravitational force (mg) at this point, addressing both theoretical and conceptual aspects of forces in motion.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about why the normal force (n) is less than the gravitational force (mg), questioning if this implies the car would go through the earth.
  • One participant suggests that the normal force equals mg on a horizontal surface but can vary with acceleration, using the example of an elevator to illustrate how normal force can exceed weight when accelerating upward.
  • Another participant clarifies that as the car travels over the hill, it is accelerating, which affects the normal force, leading to the equation normal force = weight - ma, where 'a' represents centripetal acceleration.
  • One participant challenges the notion of equilibrium, stating that the car is not in equilibrium while going over the hill, thus equilibrium equations may not apply.
  • Another participant notes that if the car were to jump off the hill, the normal force would be zero or even directed upwards, emphasizing the dynamic nature of the situation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the normal force being less than mg, with some questioning the logic behind it while others provide explanations involving acceleration and dynamics. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the conceptual understanding of normal force in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on various assumptions about forces and acceleration, and there are unresolved mathematical steps regarding the application of forces in non-equilibrium situations.

corey2014
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So in class today we were talking about Normal Force, and I was really confused on one diagram.

Here is a link about the question, but I don't understand why n<mg because if it is less than mg wouldn't that make it go through the earth? not sure but help understanding would be great thanks!

http://www.colorado.edu/physics/phys1110/phys1110_sm11/ConceptTests/pdf/Lecture6_Using%20Newton_FreeBodyDiagrams_Normal_tension_gravity.pdf

And if the link doesn't work the question is, a car traveling at a constant speed goes over a hill, at the top of the hill what is the normal force?

Thanks for the help!
 
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corey2014 said:
Here is a link about the question, but I don't understand why n<mg because if it is less than mg wouldn't that make it go through the earth? not sure but help understanding would be great thanks!
The normal force would equal mg (at least on a horizontal surface) if there were no acceleration normal to the surface the surface. But if there's acceleration in the direction of the surface, the normal force can be less than or greater than mg. Think of an elevator. When the elevator accelerates upward, the normal force from the floor of the elevator on you is greater than your weight.
And if the link doesn't work the question is, a car traveling at a constant speed goes over a hill, at the top of the hill what is the normal force?
When the car travels over a hill, it's actually accelerating. (Think of it as moving in a circle.) So ƩF = ma, thus weight - normal force = ma. So normal force = weight - ma. (You can plug in the value of the centripetal acceleration for a.)
 
corey2014 said:
Here is a link about the question, but I don't understand why n<mg because if it is less than mg wouldn't that make it go through the earth?

Why would it go through the earth? The car going over the hill actually tends to go AWAY from the earth. You know how in movies if the car goes fast enough, it actually jumps off the end of the hill? Well in that situation, the normal force would be 0 (or even upwards).

Think of the normal force as what the reading would be if you placed a scale underneath the car. Since the car would be in the air, it wouldn't even be touching the scale.
 
When the car is going over the hill it is NOT in equilibrium, is it? So you can't insist on using an equilibrium equation to describe what's going on.
 

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