Why Is QQ^T Singular for a Matrix with Orthonormal Columns?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter hotvette
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Columns Matrix
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the properties of the matrix product QQ^T, where Q is an m x n matrix with orthonormal columns and m > n. Participants explore the singularity of QQ^T, its implications in matrix factorizations, and the broader context of solving matrix equations involving non-square matrices.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that QQ^T is a symmetric m x m matrix that appears to be singular, prompting questions about the underlying reasons for this property.
  • One participant challenges the notion of QQ^T being singular by suggesting that taking Q as the identity matrix results in a non-singular QQ^T.
  • Another participant shares their experience with non-square matrices and the breakdown of factorization routines when attempting to work with QQ^T, leading to high condition numbers.
  • There is a mention of a specific matrix equation A^TDAx = A^Tb, where A is non-square, and the participant expresses difficulty in simplifying it due to the presence of QQ^T.
  • One participant later corrects their earlier equation to A^TDAx = A^Tb and finds a solution by rephrasing the problem, but remains curious about generalizations regarding QQ^T.
  • Another participant states that QQ^T has rank n, which implies it is singular if n < m.
  • One participant concludes that the orthonormality of the columns does not affect the rank relationship they discovered: rank(A) = rank(A^TA) = rank(A^TA).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the singularity of QQ^T, with some asserting it is singular due to its rank, while others question this assertion based on specific examples. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the generalization of QQ^T's properties in the context of non-square matrices.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of matrix properties and the implications of orthonormal columns on the rank of QQ^T. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the factorization of non-square matrices.

hotvette
Homework Helper
Messages
1,001
Reaction score
11
If Q is an m x n (m > n) matrix with orthonormal columns, we know that [itex]Q^TQ = I[/itex] of dimension n x n. I have a question about [itex]QQ^T[/itex]. It is a symmetric m x m matrix but also appears to be singular. Why would it be singular? Probably something basic I've long since forgotten.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
hotvette said:
If Q is an m x n (m > n) matrix with orthonormal columns, we know that [itex]Q^TQ = I[/itex] of dimension n x n. I have a question about [itex]QQ^T[/itex]. It is a symmetric m x m matrix but also appears to be singular. Why would it be singular? Probably something basic I've long since forgotten.
Why do you say it "appears to be singular"? You can take Q= I as a matrix with orthonormal matrix such that [itex]QQ^T[/itex] is not singular.
 
Thanks for your reply. I'm dealing specifically with non-square matrices with more rows than columns where I'm trying to factor [itex]QQ^T[/itex] using QR or SVD. The result is always nonsense so I tried an experiment by generating random non-square matrices with orthonormal columns and in all cases [itex]QQ^T[/itex] had condition numbers ~1E15 and the factorization routines broke down. I figured there must be some rule or axiom I'd forgotten.

This came up when trying to simplify the matrix equation [itex]A^TDAx = A^Tb[/itex] where A is non-square with more rows than columns and D is diagonal. If A is factored into QR the simplification gets stalled because I end up with [itex]QQ^T[/itex] on both sides and can't go further.

The broader question is whether [itex]A^TDAx = A^Tb[/itex] can be solved for x without having to carry out the matrix multiplications [itex]A^TDA[/itex], where A is non-square with more rows than columns and D is diagonal.
 
Last edited:
I managed to answer the broader question after realizing I made a goof in the equation. It really is ATDAx = ATDb and can be readily solved by letting B = D1/2A. The problem is then BTBx = BTD1/2b which is easy to solve.

On the other question, I'm still curious whether a generalization can be made about the nature of QQT in the case where Q is rectangular (m > n) and has orthonormal columns. I've scoured my linear algebra texts and can't find any statements about this.
 
hotvette said:
If Q is an m x n (m > n) matrix with orthonormal columns, we know that [itex]Q^TQ = I[/itex] of dimension n x n. I have a question about [itex]QQ^T[/itex]. It is a symmetric m x m matrix but also appears to be singular. Why would it be singular? Probably something basic I've long since forgotten.

[itex]QQ^T[/itex] has rank n, so if n < m then it is singular.
 
Thanks. Actually, I realized it doesn't matter that the columns are orthonormal. I found the relation I was looking for:

rank(A) = rank(ATA) = rank(AAT)

It makes intuitive sense since you aren't adding any information by forming the matrix products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank_(linear_algebra )
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K