Why is the cross product defined and used in this specific way?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition and application of the cross product in vector mathematics. Participants explore the reasoning behind its specific formulation and its connection to determinants, as well as its utility in practical applications such as torque calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the cross product is defined in a particular way, suggesting a need for clarity on its formulation.
  • Another participant proposes that altering coefficients in the expression can maintain its validity, hinting at a mnemonic for remembering the determinant calculation.
  • A further contribution discusses how writing the cross product in a specific format can aid in understanding its relationship to determinants, emphasizing the structure of the determinant expansion.
  • One participant notes that the formula for the cross product was introduced as useful for calculating torques, indicating its practical relevance.
  • Another participant expresses that while cross products are to be covered in their linear algebra class, the current lack of understanding of determinants makes the concept challenging.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and familiarity with the cross product and determinants. There is no consensus on a singular explanation or understanding of the cross product's definition and application.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate limitations in their understanding due to the absence of prior knowledge about determinants, which may affect their grasp of the cross product.

Noxide
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Why is the cross product defined this way

(blah)i + (blah)j + (blah)k = u

and used this way

(blah)i - (blah)j + (blah)k = u
 
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Well; simply make the second blah in the first line a -blah,- it remains a " blah" doesn't it? :)

The " trick" you mention makes use of a determinant to calculate aXb .
 
Making the second coeffient "-" makes it fit a nice mnemonic:
expanding a determinant along the top row
[tex]\left|\begin{array}{ccc}a & b & c \\ d & e & f\\ g & h & i\end{array}\right|= a\left|\begin{array}{cc}e & f \\ h & i\end{array}\right|- b\left|\begin{array}{cc}d & f \\ g & i\end{array}\right|+ c\left|\begin{array}{cc}d& e \\ g & h\end{array}\right|[/tex]

If [itex]\vec{u}= a\vec{i}+ b\vec{j}+ c\vec{k}[/itex] and [itex]\vec{v}= x\vec{i}+ y\vec{j}+ z\vec{k}[/itex], then writing [itex]\ve{u}\times \vec{v}= (bz-cy)\vec{i}+ (az- cx)\vec{j}+ (ay- bx)\vec{k}[/itex] as [itex](bz-cy)\vec{i}- (cx- az)\vec{j}+ (au= bx-)\vec{k}[/itex] makes it clearer that we can think of it as
[tex]\vec{u}\times\vec{v}= \left|\begin{array}{ccc}\vec{i} & \vec{j} & \vec{k} \\ a & b & c \\ x & y & z\end{array}\right|[/tex]
 
HallsofIvy said:
Making the second coeffient "-" makes it fit a nice mnemonic:
expanding a determinant along the top row
[tex]\left|\begin{array}{ccc}a & b & c \\ d & e & f\\ g & h & i\end{array}\right|= a\left|\begin{array}{cc}e & f \\ h & i\end{array}\right|- b\left|\begin{array}{cc}d & f \\ g & i\end{array}\right|+ c\left|\begin{array}{cc}d& e \\ g & h\end{array}\right|[/tex]

If [itex]\vec{u}= a\vec{i}+ b\vec{j}+ c\vec{k}[/itex] and [itex]\vec{v}= x\vec{i}+ y\vec{j}+ z\vec{k}[/itex], then writing [itex]\ve{u}\times \vec{v}= (bz-cy)\vec{i}+ (az- cx)\vec{j}+ (ay- bx)\vec{k}[/itex] as [itex](bz-cy)\vec{i}- (cx- az)\vec{j}+ (au= bx-)\vec{k}[/itex] makes it clearer that we can think of it as
[tex]\vec{u}\times\vec{v}= \left|\begin{array}{ccc}\vec{i} & \vec{j} & \vec{k} \\ a & b & c \\ x & y & z\end{array}\right|[/tex]

Thanks ivy!

We basically got the formula thrown at us because it is useful when finding torques. I see that cross products are also going to be covered in our linear algebra class, but we have not yet covered determinants in the class so cross products are a little out of my reach in terms of gaining a full understanding. I think your explanation nudged me in the right direction.
 

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