Why is the Divergence Theorem failing for this scalar function?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the Divergence Theorem to a scalar function defined as \(\Phi = -\frac{1}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2+z^2}}\). The original poster computes the Laplacian of this function and finds it to be zero, leading to a contradiction when applying the Divergence Theorem over the surface of a unit sphere.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to reconcile the results of their surface integral with the Divergence Theorem, questioning where their reasoning may have gone awry. Participants discuss the implications of the Laplacian being undefined at the origin and its relation to the Dirac Delta function.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively exploring the nuances of the Divergence Theorem in relation to functions that are not continuously differentiable. Some guidance has been offered regarding the behavior of the Laplacian near the origin and its implications for the theorem's application.

Contextual Notes

There is an emphasis on the importance of the function's behavior at the origin, which is crucial for understanding the application of the Divergence Theorem in this context. The discussion also references the relevance of this topic in electrodynamics courses.

erogard
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Hi everyone,

so let me introduce the scalar function \Phi = -(x2+y2+z2)(-1/2) which some of you may recognize as minus one over the radial distance from the origin.

When I compute \nabla2\Phi is get 0.

Now if I do the following integral on the surface S of the unit sphere x2+y2+z2= 1 :

\int\int\nabla\Phi\bulletn dS

I obtain 4\pi which is just the surface area of the unit sphere since the laplacian of \Phi dotted with the unit radial vector turns out to be one.

Yet the Divergence Theorem
6c7f5573f2059b872c1aa0a962a366bd.png


tells me precisely that those two quantities should be equal, but integrating the laplacian of phi would give me zero since the latter quantity is already 0.

Any idea on what I'm doing wrong?
(please only suggestion but do not give me the answer straight away if you think you know it, I'd like to figure it out by myself for my hw).

Thanks!
 
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erogard said:
Hi everyone,

so let me introduce the scalar function \Phi = -(x2+y2+z2)(-1/2) which some of you may recognize as minus one over the radial distance from the origin.

When I compute \nabla2\Phi is get 0.

Now if I do the following integral on the surface S of the unit sphere x2+y2+z2= 1 :

\int\int\nabla\Phi\bulletn dS

I obtain 4\pi which is just the surface area of the unit sphere since the laplacian of \Phi dotted with the unit radial vector turns out to be one.

Yet the Divergence Theorem
6c7f5573f2059b872c1aa0a962a366bd.png


tells me precisely that those two quantities should be equal, but integrating the laplacian of phi would give me zero since the latter quantity is already 0.

Any idea on what I'm doing wrong?
(please only suggestion but do not give me the answer straight away if you think you know it, I'd like to figure it out by myself for my hw).

Thanks!

Your problem is that the Laplacian of that function is undefined at the origin. You can see that by looking at the formula for the laplacian in either Cartesian or Spherical coordinates. In spherical coordinates,

\nabla^2\left(-\frac{1}{r}\right)= \frac{1}{r^2}\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\left[r^2\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\left(-\frac{1}{r}\right) \right]

the factor of 1/r^2 is what causes the problem.

So, what can you conclude? You know 3 things:

(1) The Laplacian is zero everywhere except at the origin
(2) The Laplacian is undefined at the origin
(3) If you integrate the laplacian over any region that includes the origin you will get 4\pi

These are essentially the defining properties of the 3D Dirac Delta distribution, and it turns out that \nabla^2\left(-\frac{1}{r}\right) =4\pi\delta^3(\textbf{r})
 
gabbagabbahey: thank you for pointing that out. I realize that the theorem holds for continuously differentiable function on such a volume T, yet that is not the case for the gradient phi.
 
Further, if you are encountering this in a course on electrodynamics (Griffiths, or Jackson), the motivation for the definition of the dirac delta function is precisely this argument, and they both spend a few pages discussing this. If you would like further discussion on this that is more detailed, I recommend you to their texts.

Why does this apparent contradiction appear to happen? There is a caveat in the divergence theorem regarding how such functions must behave.
 
erogard said:
gabbagabbahey: thank you for pointing that out. I realize that the theorem holds for continuously differentiable function on such a volume T, yet that is not the case for the gradient phi.

The problem isn't with the divergence theorem, but rather with your calculation of the laplacian (divergence of \mathbf{\nabla}(-\frac{1}{r})). You weren't careful enough wih your calculation near the origin.
 

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