Why is the equation for beta decay written as e- = 0 and what does it mean?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation used in the equation for beta decay, specifically the representation of the electron as \( e^{-} \equiv \,^{0}_{-1}e \). Participants explore the implications of this notation, its clarity, and its relation to conservation laws in the context of beta decay processes.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express a preference for the notation \( e^{-} \) over \( \,^{0}_{-1}e \), finding the latter tedious.
  • One participant notes that the left superscript in \( \,^{0}_{-1}e \) represents the mass number, which is zero for an electron, while the left subscript indicates charge.
  • Another participant mentions that the notation is nonstandard and suggests it may have been used to clarify how masses and charges add up.
  • There is a discussion about the rounding of the electron's mass in relation to the proton's mass, with some participants questioning the implications of treating the mass as zero.
  • One participant acknowledges the author's approach of writing the electron as if it were an isotope, which is unfamiliar but somewhat sensible.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express mixed feelings about the notation used for the electron in beta decay, with some agreeing on its nonstandard nature while others appreciate its potential clarity. There is no consensus on the preferred notation or its implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of mass rounding and the representation of charge in the context of conservation laws, but do not resolve the nuances of these concepts.

bsodmike
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I was reading a text, describing the following disintegration:

^{234}_{90}Th\xrightarrow{}~^{0}_{-1}e+~^{234}_{91}Pa

However, I prefer to understand it as,

^{234}_{90}Th\xrightarrow{}~e^{-}+~^{234}_{91}Pa

Of course, the above two equations are missing out the antineutrino. Could someone please enlighten me why,

e^{-}\equiv~^{0}_{-1}e

Am I supposed to read it as, p+n =0 but it contains a 'negative' proton number, i.e. a negative proton = an electron (although an electron has a mass of 1/1840 of that of a proton)

Cheers,
Mike.
 
Last edited:
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In a beta decay a neutron converts into a proton and an electron.
The electron (the beta) is emitted but the proton remains in the nucleus changing the element to the next along in the table
 
mgb_phys said:
In a beta decay a neutron converts into a proton and an electron.
The electron (the beta) is emitted but the proton remains in the nucleus changing the element to the next along in the table

Oh no mgb_phy, that bit is quite clear. My question was more regarding this notation:

e^{-}\equiv~^{0}_{-1}e
 
bsodmike said:
My question was more regarding this notation:
e^{-}\equiv~^{0}_{-1}e
The text is using a notation where the left superscript is the mass number, which is zero for an electron since the mass number is a roundoff of the mass in units of the nucleon mass to the nearest integer. The left subscript is the charge. It is not my favorite notation, but it agrees with rough conservation laws.
 
clem said:
The text is using a notation where the left superscript is the mass number, which is zero for an electron since the mass number is a roundoff of the mass in units of the nucleon mass to the nearest integer.

Is this a rounding of off,

m_e=\dfrac{m_p}{1836} = 9.109382\times 10^{-31}\approx~0

clem said:
It is not my favorite notation, but it agrees with rough conservation laws.

I agree, I too prefer simply using e^-. I find ^{0}_{-1}e rather tedious.
 
Putting the subscript and superscript in front of the e is totally nonstandard notation. I think the author of the textbook just wanted to make it easier to see how the masses and charges add up.
 
bcrowell said:
Putting the subscript and superscript in front of the e is totally nonstandard notation. I think the author of the textbook just wanted to make it easier to see how the masses and charges add up.

Now that I think about it, you're quite right.

^{234}_{90}Th\xrightarrow{}~^{0}_{-1}e+~^{234}_{91}Pa

From a purely 'summation' perspective one would read the right hand side as 91 - 1 = 90, what we started with. It's just rather 'fiddly' imho, as the electron is simply a result of the neutron converting into a proton in the nucleus. It's just with the above notation, the 'lost' proton is simply accounted for by the subscript '-1'.

Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice :)
 
bsodmike said:
Oh no mgb_phy, that bit is quite clear. My question was more regarding this notation:

e^{-}\equiv~^{0}_{-1}e

Sorry, Yes - the author is writing an electron as if it were an isotope. Never seen it written like this before but it makes a certain amount of sense I suppose
 
bsodmike said:
Is this a rounding of off,

m_e=\dfrac{m_p}{1836} = 9.109382\times 10^{-31}\approx~0

Eh no!

Zero is not the same that 0 eV or 0 Kgr.

The rounding off is

\dfrac{me}{m_p}\approx~\dfrac{1}{1836} \approx~0
 
  • #10
arivero said:
The rounding off is

\dfrac{me}{m_p}\approx~\dfrac{1}{1836} \approx~0

Ah! I completely forgot the units; thanks for pointing that out.
 

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