Why is this closed line integral zero?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which the closed line integral of the gradient of pressure divided by density in fluid dynamics is zero, as stated by the Kelvin circulation theorem. Participants explore various mathematical approaches and identities related to this theorem, including the implications of conservative fields and the use of Stokes' theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that if density "rho" is a function of pressure "p", then the closed line integral of grad(p) / rho(p) equals zero, referencing the Kelvin circulation theorem.
  • Another participant questions the meaning of the function g and the multiplication by grad(F(x)), seeking clarification on these terms.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of the gradient theorem, noting that if f(x) = grad(F(x)), then the closed line integral of f is zero, but they struggle to derive why g(F(x)) * grad(F(x)) would also be zero.
  • One participant suggests that the theorem implies that for barotropic fluids, the integral of the gradient of pressure divided by density is zero after certain manipulations involving Newton's second law.
  • Another participant proposes using Stokes' theorem to convert the line integral into a surface integral, arguing that if rho depends only on p, then the gradients of rho and p point in the same direction, leading to a zero cross product.
  • A different approach is introduced involving a vector identity that simplifies the expression, leading to the conclusion that the line integral is zero due to the properties of the curl of a gradient.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the Kelvin circulation theorem and the conditions under which the closed line integral is zero. There is no consensus on the derivation or implications of the theorem, and multiple competing views remain regarding the mathematical approaches discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence of certain results on the assumption that density is a function of pressure, and the discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and identities that are not fully derived.

kmot
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TL;DR
By gradient theorem, if f(x)=grad(F(x)), where F(x) is conservative field, then closed line integral of f is zero. Books tell me that also g(F(x)) * grad(F(x)) is zero. I can't derive why.
This problem comes from fluid dynamics where Kelvin circulation theorem states, that if density "rho" is a function of only pressure "p", then closed line integral of grad(p) / rho(p) equals zero. It seems so trivial, so that no one ever gives reason for this claim.

When trying to solve it, I've generalized it to the following:
If f(x)=grad(F(x)), then closed line integral of f(x) is zero, by gradient theorem. From this, it somehow follows that g(F(x)) * grad(F(x)) is also zero.

I tried to rewrite:
g(F(x)) * grad(F(x)) = grad(g(F(x)) * F(x)) - grad(g(F(x))) * F(x), by a gradient identity similar to derivative of product
And somehow show that the expanded form can be rewritten as a gradient of some function. I did not succeed.

Can somebody help me?

Thank you
 
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What is g here, and what exactly does the multiplication by grad(F(x)) mean?
 
kmot said:
Summary:: By gradient theorem, if f(x)=grad(F(x)), where F(x) is conservative field,

So f is the vector field which is the gradient of the scalar field F? We would then say that f is the conservative field.

then closed line integral of f is zero. Books tell me that also g(F(x)) * grad(F(x)) is zero. I can't derive why.

It's the gradient of G(\mathbf{x}) = \int_0^{F(\mathbf{x})} g(t)\,dt.

This problem comes from fluid dynamics where Kelvin circulation theorem states, that if density "rho" is a function of only pressure "p", then closed line integral of grad(p) / rho(p) equals zero. It seems so trivial, so that no one ever gives reason for this claim.

I don't think that's what the theorem actually says.

But in any event, \nabla p / \rho can be written as \nabla G = \frac{dG}{dp}\nabla p by taking \frac{dG}{dp} = \frac 1{\rho(p)}.
 
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pasmith said:
So f is the vector field which is the gradient of the scalar field F? We would then say that f is the conservative field.
It's the gradient of G(\mathbf{x}) = \int_0^{F(\mathbf{x})} g(t)\,dt.
I don't think that's what the theorem actually says.

But in any event, \nabla p / \rho can be written as \nabla G = \frac{dG}{dp}\nabla p by taking \frac{dG}{dp} = \frac 1{\rho(p)}.
That's wonderful. Thank you.

OK, Kelvin theorem doesn't say that per se, but it is implied. It says:
For barotropic fluid, i.e. fluid where ##\rho## is a function of only ##p##
##\frac{D\Gamma}{Dt} = \frac{D}{Dt}(\oint \vec{v} \,dl ) = 0##
After some manipulations, mainly inserting Newton's second law of motion it implies:
##\oint \nabla{p} \cdot \frac{1}{\rho} \,dl = 0##
 
I've found yet another way to prove this.
Convert line integral to surface integral using Stokes theorem:
##\oint{\frac{1}{\rho} \cdot \nabla p \, dl } = \iint_{A}{\nabla \times \left( \frac{1}{\rho} \cdot \nabla p \right) \cdot \vec{n}\, dA } = \iint_{A}{\left(\nabla\frac{1}{\rho}\right) \times \left( \nabla p \right) \cdot \vec{n}\, dA } ##
Apply the following observation:
If ##\rho## depends only on ##p##, then their gradients point in the same direction. To see this it helps me to imagine their isosurfaces, which must be parallel.

Since cross product of parallel vectors is zero, then ##\left(\nabla\frac{1}{\rho}\right) \times \left( \nabla p \right) = 0 ##
 
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Office_Shredder said:
What is g here, and what exactly does the multiplication by grad(F(x)) mean?
g is a generic function of which we know just that it depends only on F(X)
grad(F(x)) is gradient of F(x)
 
g is a function from ##\mathbb{R}\to \mathbb{R}##?
 
Office_Shredder said:
g is a function from ##\mathbb{R}\to \mathbb{R}##?
Yes. It's a density depending on pressure.
 
It looks like you solved it, but I believe I have another way that is very simple. There is a vector identity
## \nabla \times (u \vec{a})=u \nabla \times \vec{a}-\vec{a} \times \nabla u ##.
Let ## \vec{a}=\nabla F(\vec{x}) ##, and ## u=g(F(\vec{x})) ##.
The first term on the right side is zero because it is the curl of the gradient. With the second term, I think it gets ## \vec{a} \times \vec{a}=0 ## when you take ## \nabla u =g'(F(\vec{x})) \nabla F(\vec{x})=g'(F(\vec{x})) \vec{a} ##.
By Stokes the line integral ## \oint (u \vec{a}) \cdot dl=\iint \nabla \times (u \vec{a}) \cdot dS=0 ##.
 
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