Why is work considered a conservative force?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of work in physics, particularly focusing on why work done by conservative forces is considered independent of the path taken. Participants explore the implications of this definition and its relation to physical intuition and experiences, such as fatigue when lifting weights.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that their textbook states work done by a conservative force depends only on the displacement between two points, not the path taken, and expresses confusion about this concept.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the physical concept of work is not related to personal fatigue, using the example of holding a weight to illustrate that no work is done in that scenario despite the effort involved.
  • A third participant reiterates that the feeling of fatigue should not influence the understanding of work, suggesting that work should be defined strictly according to its physics definition rather than intuitive meanings.
  • A later reply expands on the previous points by explaining that while muscles require energy to hold a weight, this does not constitute work on the object itself, highlighting the distinction between energy expenditure in the body and the physics of work.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the concept of work in physics is distinct from personal experiences of fatigue, but there is ongoing discussion about how to reconcile intuitive understandings with formal definitions. No consensus is reached on the implications of these distinctions.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the physics of work often simplifies complex biological systems, focusing instead on rigid objects and their interactions, which may lead to confusion regarding the application of the concept in real-life scenarios.

Calpalned
Messages
297
Reaction score
6
My textbook says that work done by a conservative force is independent of the path taken. This tells me that ##\int_{a}^{b} \vec{f} \vec{dl} ## only needs displacement (not distance) between points a and b. Conservative, according to my book, means that there is no friction. I have difficulty conceptually understanding this. Of course I'll feel more tired if I move a block of ice in a complicated path than if I did a straight line. Thank you.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The physical concept of work is not related to how tired you become. If you hold a 40 kg weight above your head you are likely to get tired after a while, but you are not doing any work.
 
Orodruin said:
The physical concept of work is not related to how tired you become. If you hold a 40 kg weight above your head you are likely to get tired after a while, but you are not doing any work.
Absolutely. Most of the feeling of unease comes from somehow relating work to our "common sense" or intuition. A force can do zero work, as Orodruin points out, or even negative work. The concept of work should be always related to the basic definition, and not to any ideas arising from literal meanings.
 
Orodruin said:
The physical concept of work is not related to how tired you become. If you hold a 40 kg weight above your head you are likely to get tired after a while, but you are not doing any work.

This was something that bothered me when I started learning physics, so I want to make a somewhat tangential note. You are not doing work ON THE 40kg WEIGHT, but your muscles certainly require energy. Your body is built to be dynamic. Your muscles are not best suited for holding something stationary. They require continuous exchange of chemically energy to stay contracted. This often confuses people because you are "working" in the sense that there is ##\Delta E##, but that energy is being exchanged in your muscles and not transferred to the object that you are holding.

Since this is a complicated system to deal with the physics you are learning first deals with rigid objects that are being moved around without waste in the subsystems (like your muscles). So, your body is not doing work on the object and your physics class is interested in the interactions between your body and the object or gravity and the object or something else and the object. For most (if not all) of your physics career the interactions in your muscles will be left to the biologists.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 77 ·
3
Replies
77
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K