Why must the Lorentz Transformations Be Linear?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the necessity of linearity in the Lorentz Transformations (LT) within the context of special relativity. Participants explore the implications of linear transformations on the behavior of objects in different inertial frames, touching on concepts of acceleration, force, and the nature of spacetime coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a transformation is linear if it keeps the origin fixed and maps lines to lines.
  • It is proposed that Lorentz transformations must preserve the nature of timelike lines, which represent inertial particles.
  • One participant argues that if the transformation were not linear, an object could appear to accelerate in one inertial frame while moving at constant velocity in another, potentially violating relativity assumptions.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the Lorentz-Einstein transformations should be linear to ensure a one-to-one correspondence between space-time coordinates in different inertial frames.
  • There is a discussion about the appropriateness of using F=ma in special relativity, with some suggesting it should be expressed as F=dp/dt instead.
  • A later reply challenges the idea that a frame can appear to accelerate in one inertial frame but not in another, asserting that F=ma holds in all inertial frames, while noting that mass can vary with speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of linearity in the Lorentz Transformations, particularly regarding the relationship between force, acceleration, and mass in different inertial frames. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the necessity and consequences of linear transformations.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments depend on the definitions of linear transformations and the nature of spacetime coordinates. There are unresolved mathematical steps regarding the implications of varying mass and the application of force in relativistic contexts.

emob2p
Messages
56
Reaction score
1
All derivations of the Lorentz Transformations I've seen assume a linear transformation between coordinates. Why must this be the case? Thanks.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
A transformation is linear if and only if it keeps the origin fixed, and it maps lines to lines.
 
In particular, a Lorentz transformation must preserve the nature of timelike lines, which represent inertial particles.
 
So if the transformation were not linear, then an object would appear to be accelerating in one inertial frame but moving at a constant velocity in another. This would mean F=ma doesn't hold in both frames, a violation of a relativity assumption. Does that argument sound good to you guys?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: physics_CD
linearity of the LET

emob2p said:
All derivations of the Lorentz Transformations I've seen assume a linear transformation between coordinates. Why must this be the case? Thanks.
I used to say to my students that the LET should be linear because to a pair of space-time coordinates in one inertial reference frame should correspond a single pair of space-time coordinates in an other one.
 
LET? Oh, you mean Lorentz-Einstein transforms, not Lorentz Ether Theory.

a pair of space-time coordinates in one inertial reference frame should correspond a single pair of space-time coordinates in an other one.
That happens with any 1-1 transformation...
 
linearity

Hurkyl said:
LET? Oh, you mean Lorentz-Einstein transforms, not Lorentz Ether Theory.


That happens with any 1-1 transformation...
of couse! in any consistent theory.
sine ira et studio:smile: :
 
emob2p said:
So if the transformation were not linear, then an object would appear to be accelerating in one inertial frame but moving at a constant velocity in another. This would mean F=ma doesn't hold in both frames, a violation of a relativity assumption. Does that argument sound good to you guys?
Yes, the LT is linear so that if there is no accelartion in one LF, there will no acceleration in any other LF. But, don't talk about F=ma in SR.
 
why no F=ma in SR?
 
  • #10
I guess it's more appropriate to say F=dp/dt.
 
  • #11
a and dp/dt are related by:
\frac{d\bf p}{dt}=\frac{d}{dt}(m{\bf v}\gamma)<br /> = m\frac{d}{dt}\left[\frac{\bf v}<br /> {\sqrt{1-{\bf v}^2}}\right]<br /> =m\gamma^3[{\bf a}+{\bf v\times(v\times a)}].
 
  • #12
emob2p said:
So if the transformation were not linear, then an object would appear to be accelerating in one inertial frame but moving at a constant velocity in another. This would mean F=ma doesn't hold in both frames, a violation of a relativity assumption. Does that argument sound good to you guys?

What? How do you figure that a frame can be accelerated to one inertial frame but not accelerated to another inertial frame. This makes no sense. F=ma holds in all inertial frames. However, as mentioned above, mass can vary. If mass did not vary then, due to the speed limit of c, a given force in an inertial frame @ .9999c would obviously yield a much smaller acceleration than that same force at .00001c, and if only acceleration changed due to a given force then the postulate of special relativity would be violated. But, at very high speeds the lack of acceleration is made up for in a large increase in mass, so regardless of speed, a given force yields the same momentum.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 101 ·
4
Replies
101
Views
7K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 54 ·
2
Replies
54
Views
4K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
963
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K