News Why Would an Adult Target Kindergarten Students in a Shooting?

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A tragic school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, has resulted in the deaths of 27 people, including 18 children, primarily in a kindergarten classroom. The gunman, who is reported dead, had connections to the school through his mother, a teacher there. The incident has sparked intense discussions about gun violence and the societal implications of such acts, with many expressing disbelief and horror at the targeting of young children. Some participants in the discussion highlight the need for urgent action to address gun-related issues in America, while others reflect on the broader nature of human violence. The emotional impact on families and communities is profound, with many struggling to comprehend the tragedy.
  • #91


These events seem to occur most often in the USA and that's a fact worth looking into, but it happens elsewhere too. These events seem to occur most often with guns and that's a fact worth looking into, but it happens with other weapons too. These events seem to occur most often with mentally deranged individuals and that's a fact worth looking into, but it happens with cold calculating individuals and groups too. The common factor is us, ourselves. I am not talking about collective responsibility. That's a dodge used by lawyers to defend the ones that don't kill themselves in the process. Forgive him, society made him do it. What I am saying is that if you don't look for the cause in the human makeup, then you end up like the joke where the lost wallet is searched for not in the dark place where it was dropped but under the street lamp where there is more light. And more heat.
 
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  • #92


31 mass killings with guns since Columbine, WHEN exactly is it the right time to start discussing gun control then if not now?
 
  • #93


gravenewworld said:
31 mass killings with guns since Columbine, WHEN exactly is it the right time to start discussing gun control then if not now?
That's a topic for a separate thread.
 
  • #94


Pythagorean said:
Genuinely curious what is going through somebody's mind when they do these kinds of things.

Probably a topic for another thread, but assume someone noticed very irregular behavior with this killer a few weeks ago. Is there an effective test to determine risk levels? I'm not sure what could be done by anyone outside of the family prior to a crime? I do hope this is a wake up call to parents in the same type situation as the slain mother...to seek help...and that those asked to help make an effort.
 
  • #95


Pythagorean said:
Genuinely curious what is going through somebody's mind when they do these kinds of things.

I wish someday a guy like this is caught alive and taken to a lab and studied.
 
  • #97


enosis_ said:
Probably a topic for another thread, but assume someone noticed very irregular behavior with this killer a few weeks ago. Is there an effective test to determine risk levels? I'm not sure what could be done by anyone outside of the family prior to a crime? I do hope this is a wake up call to parents in the same type situation as the slain mother...to seek help...and that those asked to help make an effort.

Until you're in a situation such as this you won't know. How many times have you heard someone utter a threat and because you thought you knew you ignored it as just talk, or you were somewhat afraid of the person but not enough to get the authorities involved so you just avoided them. People of this mindset are not stupid but they may be paranoid and will try to hide their actions telling reasonable sounding lies. This is how they can operate under the radar for so long and why we should always be vigilant.

What I fear now is the spread of this violence to other families where the teen children will begin to hate the world and want to do it even more harm because of all the pain, agony they see and feel at the loss of a brother or sister? And then there's the copycats who will view this as a way to get even with the world and who will act it out again.
 
  • #98


nsaspook said:
I would like to know what's the effect of FPS games on people with unstable personalities. I've watched people play these games endlessly with unease at the behaviour patterns they must be creating in people with little self-control.

http://www.psypost.org/2011/10/viol...er-video-games-emotionally-desensitizing-7523

It's strictly my opinion that violent video games might have a de-sensitizing effect. However, these killings were done in very close proximity - innocent children trapped in a small room and individually executed. The actual aiming (re-focusing) and pulling of the trigger 18 times would have taken (my guess) approximately 1 to 2 seconds each? Wouldn't this take some type of determination and committment to the act?
 
  • #99


jedishrfu said:
Until you're in a situation such as this you won't know.

How true
 
  • #100


enosis_ said:
It's strictly my opinion that violent video games might have a de-sensitizing effect. However, these killings were done in very close proximity - innocent children trapped in a small room and individually executed. The actual aiming (re-focusing) and pulling of the trigger 18 times would have taken (my guess) approximately 1 to 2 seconds each? Wouldn't this take some type of determination and committment to the act?

I think the virtual act of pulling the trigger in games makes the act of pulling the trigger in real-life a possibility for a person on the edge by removing the human reality of the target. How a sick person could objectify children is beyond my understanding but it's how recruits are trained to remove the inhibition on killing when not directly in a life and death situation. You block the reality by training away the emotion or empathy and focus only on the removal of the target as a thing but we also reinforce total control by strict obedience to orders by NCO's and officers to bring them back to normal emotional behaviour.

I'm not saying it's the reason this happened but excessive violent game use coupled with mental instability been a common thread in other school type killings .
 
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  • #101
New information has Lanza forcing his way into the school and not voluntarily let in as earlier reported. He apparently left some evidence regarding his motives.

http://news.yahoo.com/conn-police-very-good-evidence-gunman-155817889.html
 
  • #102
There was another incident today in an Alabama hospital.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-hospital-alabamabre8be08h-20121215,0,6265020.story
 
  • #103
enosis_ said:
There was another incident today in an Alabama hospital.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-hospital-alabamabre8be08h-20121215,0,6265020.story

Without wanting to sound too blasé, events like that happen every day and it sounds like a shooting between someone and a police officer. The incident discussed in this thread is much rarer and the cold blooded murder of dozens of children and teachers.
 
  • #104


The nearest case that I can think is the UT Austin sniper case. He murdered his wife and mother prior to his rampage on campus. He bought his weapons legally going to multiple stores using a variety of excuses. He methodically planned the whole affair and executed it precisely. You can read about it on Wikipedia including his skewed reasoning and the stress that brought it on. There were warnings but they were deemed idle threats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman
 
  • #106


Rika said:
No, this is the best time for debate. Because saying 'he is a freak, I can't believe it' is superficial and meaningless. People are dead and this is the fact.

That being said as European I will never understand Americans. For some reason more than 90% of you want to sleep with machine gun under your pillow or else you won't feel "free".

I don't sleep with machine gun but I don't feel that my freedom is restricted in any way.

It's true that if you can't buy gun in supermarket then events like that are less likely to occur.

But it's also true that in Canda the law is similar and yet events like that are rare. So how come? Maybe sth in your society is broken. I would love to hear any explanation for that.

My thoughts exactly. I will never understand this, this seems to be an obvious problem to everyone else except to a lot of Americans, who seem to be selectively blind to it. I actually feel more free knowing that people don't go around armed, it's the freedom of not being afraid to get shot. And I don't think anywhere in the world gun laws are as lax as in the US. They are certainly more restrictive in Canada.
 
  • #107


russ_watters said:
No, it isn't. This is the time when people are least rational and decisions should be based on rational thoughts.
Is there a right time to do something about guns issue in the US? I started one thread recently where many people either said statistically there is no problem at all or there is no solution.

It's shame how the US politicians choose to ignore the gun issue including the both president candidates.
Greg Bernhardt said:
A new thread called "technology to protect a school" thread has been made
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=659069

Just to keep the idiots happy with their guns, will this technology be placed in schools, universities, religious places, and theaters?
 
  • #108
This video came to mind when hearing of this incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKwnE_jR8l8​

Maude apparently took poison, because her 80th birthday was the proper time to die.
The movie as a whole is filled with symbols of death, Harold's inability to deal with reality, and the resulting morbid manifestations.
Harold escapes death in the end, by destroying his hearse. Maude had earlier taught him how to live, dance, and play the banjo.
The lyrics of http://lyrics.wikia.com/Cat_Stevens:Trouble are about as close as I can come to describing my feelings.

I do not know what to do about the dead kindergartners.

Sharing the stories of the heroes seems appropriate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX8V_ZWwgb4​

The survivors will appreciate it. I do.

Greg Bernhardt said:
My fiance works at an elementary school. I almost hope she doesn't read about this.

Give her a big hug for me.
 
  • #109
Astronuc said:
New information has Lanza forcing his way into the school and not voluntarily let in as earlier reported. He apparently left some evidence regarding his motives.

http://news.yahoo.com/conn-police-very-good-evidence-gunman-155817889.html
Where does it say he forced his way into the school? Oh, never mind, I see it. But it's not clear what they mean.

What I heard was that he first went to the principal's office, got into an argument with her, which was placed over the PA system to alert the teachers, then the principal was killed and he then went to his mother's old kindergarden class.

Lanza forced his way into the school, Vance revealed Saturday, though he wouldn’t say how or whether Lanza used weapons to do it.

It’s also not clear whether Lanza entered before or after 9:30 a.m., the time each day when the school would lock its doors as part of a security system introduced this year. Authorities say the first emergency call about the shooting came in at “approximately” 9:30 a.m. Friday.
So we still don't know how or when he entered.

http://wtvr.com/2012/12/15/police-gunman-adam-lanza-barged-into-elementary-school/

If he knew they locked the doors at 9:30am, it would make sense for him to enter before then.
 
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  • #112


enosis_ said:
... It's strictly my opinion that violent video games might have a de-sensitizing effect ...

nsaspook said:
... I'm not saying it's the reason this happened but excessive violent game use coupled with mental instability been a common thread in other school type killings .

Why is this even being discussed?

And it appears that the issue is not with video games, but with the mentally unstable. It's just a convenient scape-goat that allows for us to try to feebly explain how this could have happened. I think that it's fairly obvious that this is not something that normal people do, which implies that this person is not normal. Having a better understanding of mental illnesses, or possibly trauma that could bring a human being to rationalize despicable acts, is a far better use of time and effort than blaming video games ever will be.

It's like parents who blame violent video games for their children's crimes; they just can't cope with their own incompetence, and would rather have the blame be put off onto something other than themselves or their children.
 
  • #113


I'm with AntiFreeze on this one. I grew up dirt poor in a seriously broken home with a history of irresponsibility, abuse, and neglect. I played violent video games(*) and am also an avid shooter. I've never gone on a shooting spree, and can confidently say I never will. Looking for inanimate objects to blame is a disease in and of itself, for people who for one reason or another do not want to acknowledge that at the end of the day, what a person does is their own decision, and to some extent, their parents.

(*)By the standards of the day. I'm 36 so violence back then was double dragon, mortal kombat, doom, etc. They made the same unsupported connections back then, and to movies and music before then.
 
  • #114


I'm sorry for the teachers and children who died, and those who will suffer from witnessing such inhuman incident..

My condolences to their families.
 
  • #115


Be aware that as we seek to understand and find a solution to this problem, we will encounter many side issues that will detract from and co-opt the story from the victims of this crime. You may think the victims have been killed but they are present. They are the parents and siblings of these kids. They will be going thru tremendous pain, suffering and grief leading to PTSD, lost jobs, broken marriages, troubled teens, and drug/alcoholic abuse. The stress they will feel is just too great to handle and just to unbearable...

Please think about what they will be going through, read up on grief counseling and prepare yourself should you find it has affected one of your relatives, friends or co-workers. If so don't treat them like they have leprosy. Dont run away from them because you can't handle it. You must be strong. You must listen without an opinion. You must be there for them.

All of this news coverage will also do damage as it delays the grieving process where people who were indirectly affected praise God for their good fortune or say at least the little ones are in heaven. None of this talk helps these parents. Sometimes religious sentiment backfires. Sometimes I even feel that it may make it easier for a shooter to justify his/her actions on the grounds that we really don't die or that we're going to heaven.
 
  • #116


justsomeguy said:
I'm with AntiFreeze on this one. I grew up dirt poor in a seriously broken home with a history of irresponsibility, abuse, and neglect. I played violent video games(*) and am also an avid shooter. I've never gone on a shooting spree, and can confidently say I never will. Looking for inanimate objects to blame is a disease in and of itself, for people who for one reason or another do not want to acknowledge that at the end of the day, what a person does is their own decision, and to some extent, their parents.

(*)By the standards of the day. I'm 36 so violence back then was double dragon, mortal kombat, doom, etc. They made the same unsupported connections back then, and to movies and music before then.

Its true that Brievik of Norway said he used video games to desensitize himself beforehand. However, he had already decided that he was going to kill many and used the video game to strengthen his resolve because its one thing to kill a character in a game and another to do it in real life. The video game serves the same purpose as a gun for those who want to kill.

In the Palestinian conflict video game developers have created custom games for both sides to perpetuate the hatred each feel. The games are directed at teens involved in the conflict and make it harder to create a lasting peace. So while we can't blame the games for creating killers, we can ask why can't game developers agree to create games with better civic and moral values.
 
  • #117


AnTiFreeze3 said:
Why is this even being discussed?

And it appears that the issue is not with video games, but with the mentally unstable. It's just a convenient scape-goat that allows for us to try to feebly explain how this could have happened. I think that it's fairly obvious that this is not something that normal people do, which implies that this person is not normal. Having a better understanding of mental illnesses, or possibly trauma that could bring a human being to rationalize despicable acts, is a far better use of time and effort than blaming video games ever will be.

It's like parents who blame violent video games for their children's crimes; they just can't cope with their own incompetence, and would rather have the blame be put off onto something other than themselves or their children.

I'm not blaming video games for his actions but I'm not blind to the conditioning of a sick human mind to repetitive killing. There are testable effects on the human mind from violence of all sorts not just games. Games are not the trigger to this or any other crime but exposure even simulated violence or love has an effect on mood as we all know from watching movies. Just blaming mental illnesses for despicable acts is a whitewash when it's possible the society at large is conditioning a very tiny fraction of the population to have no limits when they snap for hatred of their mom or any other strange reason. Are we creating a sub-culture of unlimited violence in our society?
 
  • #118


jedishrfu said:
Its true that Brievik of Norway said he used video games to desensitize himself beforehand. However, he had already decided that he was going to kill many and used the video game to strengthen his resolve because its one thing to kill a character in a game and another to do it in real life.

I am skeptical that 'training' had any real impact, as he'd already made up his mind. Maybe during the shooting he convinced himself that it was just another game, but that's delusion, not desensitization.

jedishrfu said:
The video game serves the same purpose as a gun for those who want to kill.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Shooting a gun at paper targets will desensitize you to the light and noise, but target practice isn't going to mentally or emotionally prepare you to take a life. Video games would certainly be much better at that.


jedishrfu said:
we can ask why can't game developers agree to create games with better civic and moral values.

I don't really follow this either. The jihad training games are not made by typical game studios. If you're suggesting that all violence is immoral, I would say that self defense (for individuals or countries) is not, and that no matter how moral the game, if it has violence, that aspect of it can be adjusted (e.g. modded) into a new game without the morality.

Of course, for the actual game studios to have any reason for this, it would help to prove that what they're doing is harmful to otherwise healthy people, and I don't believe that it is.
 
  • #119
Names and Potraits of the Victims at Sandy Hook

Evo said:
Where does it say he forced his way into the school? Oh, never mind, I see it. But it's not clear what they mean.

What I heard was that he first went to the principal's office, got into an argument with her, which was placed over the PA system to alert the teachers, then the principal was killed and he then went to his mother's old kindergarden class.
The story has often changed during the last 24 to 30 hrs. I get some news from NPR or local NPR affiliate. Newtown is about an hour drive from my home, and I have often passed through it on trips. Various news services are reporting on it.

The names of the victims will be released soon. Apparently the 20 child victims were 6 and 7 years old - first graders and maybe kindergardeners(?). I just saw an interview with one of the fathers whose daughter Emilie (6) was one of the victims.

From the LA Times:

Children:
Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Madeleine F. Hsu, 6
Catherine V. Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison N. Wyatt, 6

Adults:

Rachel Davino, 29
Dawn Hochsprung, 47 (Principal)
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Lauren Russeau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Victoria Soto, 27 (was killed while shielding her students).

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...ook-shooting-victims-20121215,0,1042668.story

'Always smiling': Portraits of Conn. victims
http://news.yahoo.com/always-smiling-portraits-conn-victims-232628223.html
 
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  • #120


Thank you Astronuc, I just want to cry...
 

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