News William Bennett: you could abort every black baby

[jimmie]

So you think that people don't have wants?

Clearly, you have not understood correctly what I have said.

It is BECAUSE of individual's "wants" that prevents those same individuals from realizing their true self and to see reality.

"Want" is everywhere, but so is reality. An individual that conquers their own self, makes it extinct, opens their own window into reality. That individual has truly become enlightened.

Until that point of enlightenment is reached, each individual is a secluded, non-integrated being, sequestered from reality by their own particular "wants", all the while possibly believing that the temporal world in which they participate is "reality".

The reality is that there is no self, only the illusion of the self.

Beyond the self is where the real fun began.

No offense but are you 100 percent ok? You’re not on anything that might impair your thinking are you?

As for being on "anything", which I speculate you mean 'drugs'. No.
I eat only fresh fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains, and drink only distilled water.

As for being 100% ok, I recommend you read other posts that I have made, and then you tell me: Are YOU "ok"?

And may I remind you, I speak from ONLY personal experience.

 

[Skyhunter]

WOW! Did this thread ever get off topic.

I have to agree with jimmie though. We are constantly bombarded with subliminal messages telling us all the things we "want".

I suggest you go out into the desert, or up in the mountains, look up at the stars, contemplate the vastness of creation, and then decide how important your personal wants and desires are in the scope of existence.

 

[Smurf]

WOW! Did this thread ever get off topic.

I know And it's not like it evolved either, it used to be about racism and then jimmie just buts in with his comment about consumerism completely out of the blue. Complete shift of topic. Smoothest hijacking ever.

 

[arildno]

I know And it's not like it evolved either, it used to be about racism and then jimmie just buts in with his comment about consumerism completely out of the blue. Complete shift of topic. Smoothest hijacking ever.

Possible connection to consumerism:
Perhaps if the mothers of the aborted fetuses sell them as high-energy fodder to the farmers, then a significant income increase in the African-American population will be the result, and hence, we may gain an even stronger drop in the crime statistics?

 

[jimmie]

"If you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down.

"That would be an impossibly ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down," he said.

The above quote from William Bennett addresses how to reduce crime.

Until I submitted my first reply, all previous replies were concerned with the racist implications inherent in the quote, and not the intended purpose of the quote itself; "thoughts" on how to reduce crime.

So, who did the hijacking?

 

[Skyhunter]

If we aborted all fetuses we could eliminate crime altogether. Just think a world free of crime and humans.

 

[arildno]

If we aborted all fetuses we could eliminate crime altogether. Just think a world free of crime and humans.

And before that glorious day comes, we could become really rich ghouls. That's also a nice prospect.

 

[jimmie]

I am aware the sarcasm inherent in the last couple responses.

If we aborted all fetuses we could eliminate crime altogether

Not possible. Even if all fetuses were aborted, that would still leave "we/us", and the "thought" that inanimate objects hold value, and therefore, the possibility and inevitability that that "thought" will be passed on to other generations.

No, the ONLY way to eliminate crime altogether is to eliminate the "thought" that inanimate objects hold value.

 

[Smurf]

Possible connection to consumerism:
Perhaps if the mothers of the aborted fetuses sell them as high-energy fodder to the farmers, then a significant income increase in the African-American population will be the result, and hence, we may gain an even stronger drop in the crime statistics?

Oh dang. How on Earth did I miss that one.

I'm getting too old for this.

 

[Smurf]

No, the ONLY way to eliminate crime altogether is to eliminate the "thought" that inanimate objects hold value.

wouldn't that mostly just eliminate property crime? and not much else.

 

[loseyourname]

No, the ONLY way to eliminate crime altogether is to eliminate the "thought" that inanimate objects hold value.

I'm going to have to agree with smurf here (and probably faint because of it). Not all crime stems from people desiring inanimate objects that they believe holds value for them. Besides, I question whether or not it is seriously possibly to purge oneself of all desire. Outside of the Buddha, has any person ever even claimed to have done so? Desire did evolve for a reason, you know.

The only way I can see to remove all crime would be to eliminate all people from the planet completely - or simply to eliminate all laws, in which case behaviors that are now considered "criminal" would not be.

 

[arildno]

No, the ONLY way to eliminate crime altogether is to eliminate the "thought" that inanimate objects hold value.

Rapists will still thrive..

 

[Smurf]

The only way I can see to remove all crime would be to eliminate all people from the planet completely - or simply to eliminate all laws, in which case behaviors that are now considered "criminal" would not be.

I think that's a bit narrow. Elimination of crime is certainly possible, if somewhat difficult.

 

[Smurf]

Rapists will still thrive..

Not necessarily.

 

[arildno]

Not necessarily.

Ok then: they might not thrive, but will keep on raping..

 

[Smurf]

Ok then: they might not thrive, but will keep on raping..

... I stand by my previous statement.

 

[arildno]

... I stand by my previous statement.

Well, I'm not quite sure you got the fact that my post was a reply to jimmie's idea that we need to remove all value-assignments on inanimate objects in order to remove crime.
I can't see that my post is very different in content from your own 100, in which you object to jimmie's idea yourself.

 

[jimmie]

wouldn't that mostly just eliminate property crime? and not much else.

The being that was able to purge ALL thought from him, is able to purge not just one particular thought from all other human beings but ALL thought from all other human beings.

It was possible to wipe the slate clean. I know.

Rapists will still thrive..

No, in the High bandwidth domain, such individuals and the like are EXTINCT.

Outside of the Buddha, has any person ever even claimed to have done so?

Now we're getting somewhere. You know, for the record, I am aware that many individuals expect an other individual, designated as a "Buddha".

 

[arildno]

No, in the High bandwidth domain, such individuals and the like are EXTINCT.

No comment needed.

 

[Townsend]

Clearly, you have not understood correctly what I have said.

I guess not because what you have been saying is that there is no such thing as value when what you meant was value exist if and only if people have no wants. To this end I would agree and once again I think it's almost to trivial to even bother mentioning...but don't blame me for misunderstanding you!

It is BECAUSE of individual's "wants" that prevents those same individuals from realizing their true self and to see reality.

Unless I am still not understanding what you're saying this is just BS...

If you have no wants then you do nothing...you have to want something before you will do anything. If you do anything at all then you wanted to do it...people would not exist if they did not want. It is as natural and healthy as breathing. Even in attempting to free your self of wants, you are in fact pursuing a want and creating something of value that you wish to achieve.

"Want" is everywhere, but so is reality.

This makes no sense...what do you mean reality is everywhere?

An individual that conquers their own self, makes it extinct, opens their own window into reality. That individual has truly become enlightened.

Define what you mean by "conquers their own self." This entire idea sound internally inconsistent.

The reality is that there is no self, only the illusion of the self.

There is no self? ... this makes no sense at all.

Beyond the self is where the real fun began.

I suppose you're this super genious who has it all figured out and I am just suppose to believe you...yeah right.

As for being on "anything", which I speculate you mean 'drugs'. No.
I eat only fresh fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains, and drink only distilled water.

I don't mean any offense it's just your statements seem so strange I wondered if you might not be under the influence of some kind of medication.

 

[jimmie]

An analogy.

A worker with a screwgun, a regular screwgun with a cord, goes about the job, doing his work. Stepping over this, ducking under that, walking around that column to get over there, reaching around this to screw that screw down there.

After about 1 hour, the cord is tangled around everything, everywhere he WAS, and, he is not able to progress any further because the cord will become unplugged.

So now, the worker is obligated to stop working just to reign in control of the cord, and plug it into a location closer to where he is now working.

All the while, an other worker is doing the exact same job with a cordless screwgun. That worker is not limited by a cord, and there is no stress caused by the cord/self being wrapped around objects.

The individual with the cordless screw gun used to be an individual with the corded screw gun, but that individual conquered his self and has shed the cord that had anchored him to the low bandwidth domain. He is now in the high bandwidth domain, surrounded by individuals in the low bandwidth domain, with corded screw guns.

If you have never used a screw gun, believe me, cordless is the ONLY way to go.

Just out of curiousity: If I left my family, never to return, and gave away all monies I have, LOTS of monies, for the sole purpose of teaching individuals such as you that in fact I do have it 'all figured out', and asked for nothing in return, and, you were aware that I left my family to never return and gave away all my monies, then, do you suppose...you would believe me?

 

[Townsend]

If you have never used a screw gun, believe me, cordless is the ONLY way to go.

My step dad was a contractor...I did plenty of construction work and I totally agree with you.

Just out of curiousity: If I left my family, never to return, and gave away all monies I have, LOTS of monies, for the sole purpose of teaching individuals such as you that in fact I do have it 'all figured out', and asked for nothing in return, and, you were aware that I left my family to never return and gave away all my monies, then, do you suppose...you would believe me?

I would believe that you believe in your cause...I would believe that you actually posses the courage of your convictions and I would respect you for that.

However, you would still be pursuing a want and there is value in what you do...you cannot make that go away. I understand that superficial things like cars and gold or any of the consumerist crap that is everywhere you look is meaningless and that its value is artificial. I am with you...I moved out to the middle of nowhere just to get away from all of that...

However, there are many things that I value not because I really think they are worth something or that they some how make my life complete. I value them because they are symbolic of something that is not a tangible object…like my feelings for my family.
I also value things for their usefulness...like my car is useful for transportation...a very important thing to me.

 

[jimmie]

thanks for your input.

the toughest part about being a teacher that is yet to teach, is knowing that the students need to be taught, and that only I can teach them what I know.

And, the process of teaching requires actions, and that the very thought of teaching is/was an action, and that the only reason the students will get taught is because I conquered my self, and hence, all action.

The only way for I to teach the students is to "act out" a pre-determined set actions designed to teach a particular lesson. Sort of like: student presses 'play' and learns. At the time of the 'act', I know it will be an act, and you will know it will be an act, but the 'act' will change you. I do not change.

Anyway, NOW we're getting off topic.

 

[Smasherman]

I'll hit the topic a bit here before I veer off.

Bennett's comment isn't necessarily racist, but it is a very stupid thing to say. The fact that he thought of it at all suggests that he is racist, and it does project racist thoughts. So, whether or not his comment was meant to be racist, it increases racism.

I agree with jimmie's premise. I've recently come across the knowledge that other people don't necessarily train their minds. I didn't expect them to, but coming across that knowledge as painfully as I recently have made it all too clear. Myself, I can eliminate want fairly easily, and I've only had a few years of self-training.

Individuals mimic other people. If everyone around person X is constantly wanting more stuff, person X will want more stuff.

Thought evolution occurs constantly, so anti-wanting thoughts can come about naturally. Outside influences can also break the status quo.

The argument currently taking hold of this thread is optimism vs. pessimism. It's the same thing with socialism. If everyone was an optimist, the problem would disappear. If you don't believe me, think about how people mimic others. Yes, people will still be aggressive and such, but without overly aggressive peers, violence won't occur. Also, just because someone doesn't appear aggressive doesn't mean they don't feel that way. Subliminal habits are also picked up, if not more-so that obvious ones (subliminal advertisement, for instance). The transition from pessimism to optimism will always be hard because people have to break old habits.

The argument against enlightenment is human nature, right? Humans are predisposed to act very un-enlightened, but they don't indulge overly if others don't.

If someone is chemically imbalanced, these rules have much less hold. From my experience, however, alcohol affects people by putting them into the mind-set that they had while being introduced to alcohol. In the US alcohol is considered a terrible thing and is supressed, so teenagers of course tend to drink it excessively, often with friends. This behavior leads to violence later in life. I've been told that alcoholism isn't a serious problem in some parts of the world that don't consider alcohol to be a terrible vice.

People need to learn that things can, actually, get better.