Work, temperature and energy in a constant pressure process

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculations of work, temperature, and energy changes in a constant pressure process, specifically focusing on the use of specific heat capacities (Cp and Cv) and the application of the first law of thermodynamics. Participants explore the relationships between heat transfer, temperature changes, and internal energy in the context of a thermodynamic system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a method for calculating the final temperature (T2) using the equation Q = m * C * ΔT, leading to a result of T2 = 300 ºF, but expresses confusion regarding Cp and Cv.
  • Another participant corrects the temperature calculation, suggesting T2 should be 350 ºF based on the equation T2 = T1 + Q/(m * Cp), and provides a revised calculation for internal energy change (ΔU) and work (W).
  • Multiple participants reiterate the corrected calculations for ΔU and W, emphasizing the importance of the first law of thermodynamics, specifically ΔU = Q - W.
  • A later reply questions the use of ΔT versus T2 in calculating ΔU and W, noting discrepancies in results based on different interpretations of the equations.
  • There is a mention of differing values for Cv, with one participant recalling Cv = 0.21 while another uses Cv = 0.18, leading to different internal energy calculations.
  • Participants acknowledge that the final temperature is consistent across different calculations, but express uncertainty regarding the correct approach to determining ΔU and W.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the final temperature being correct in both cases, but there is disagreement regarding the correct application of equations for calculating internal energy and work, as well as the appropriate values for Cv. The discussion remains unresolved on these points.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the specific heat capacities and the application of the first law of thermodynamics, as participants use different values and approaches, leading to varying results.

Krokodrile
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Homework Statement
8 pounds of a gas with cp = 0.25 btu/lbm(ºF) and cv = 0.18 btu/lbm(ºF) that is at 100 ºF, is placed in a piston cylinder and 500 btu is delivered as heat in a no-flow process at constant pressure. Determine the final temperature, the internal energy change, and the work done
Relevant Equations
Q=m*C*△T
W = △U + Q
So, the Cp and Cv its very confusing for me. But, i understand what's its happening in this process, so, i use the logic and first i obtain a ecuation for obtain the final temperature ecuaticon:

Q=m*C*△T
Q=m*C*(T2-T1)
T2=(Q+T1)/(m*C)

If the process its in constant pressure, i use the Cp valor:

T2=(500 +100ºF)/(8 pounds * 0.25btu/lbm(ºF)
T2 = 300 ºF

So, i determinate the internal energy change using this ecuacion:

△U= 36 Cv*△T
△U = 0.18 btu/lbm(ºF) * (300 ºF - 100 ºF)
△U = 36 btu/lbm(ºF)

For the work:

W = △U + Q
W = 36 btu/lbm(ºF) `+ 500 btu
W = 536

I know that my results its incorrect, but these "Cp and Cv" confusing to me.

I need some help please :).
 
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You had the right idea, but in addition to understanding the physical principles, you need to do the math correctly. $$T_2=T_1+\frac{Q}{MC_p}=100+\frac{500}{(8)(0.25)}=350\ F$$
$$\Delta U=MC_v(350-100)=(8)(0.21)(250)=420\ BTU$$Your equation for the first law is incorrect. It should read $$\Delta U=Q-W$$where W is the work done by the system on its surroundings. $$W=Q-\Delta U=500-420=80\ BTU$$
 
Chestermiller said:
You had the right idea, but in addition to understanding the physical principles, you need to do the math correctly. $$T_2=T_1+\frac{Q}{MC_p}=100+\frac{500}{(8)(0.25)}=350\ F$$
$$\Delta U=MC_v(350-100)=(8)(0.21)(250)=420\ BTU$$Your equation for the first law is incorrect. It should read $$\Delta U=Q-W$$where W is the work done by the system on its surroundings. $$W=Q-\Delta U=500-420=80\ BTU$$
Ohhh, thank you so much. I see now where its my mistake, well ;) I am happy to understand by myself this problem.
 
Chestermiller said:
You had the right idea, but in addition to understanding the physical principles, you need to do the math correctly. $$T_2=T_1+\frac{Q}{MC_p}=100+\frac{500}{(8)(0.25)}=350\ F$$
$$\Delta U=MC_v(350-100)=(8)(0.21)(250)=420\ BTU$$Your equation for the first law is incorrect. It should read $$\Delta U=Q-W$$where W is the work done by the system on its surroundings. $$W=Q-\Delta U=500-420=80\ BTU$$
Excuse me Sir. In the class, when the teacher give us the answer of the problems, she use the △T for determinate the △U and W, so, the results was different:

△T = △H / m*Cp = 500 BTU/ (8lb) (0.25 BTU/lbmF) = 250 F

△U = m*Cv*△T = (8 lb) (0.18 BTU/lbmF) (250 F) = 360 BTU

W = Q - △U = 500 BTU - 360 BTU = 140 BTU

Its this correct? why she use △T and not T2?

The final temperatura its correct in both cases.

Thank you for read.
 
Krokodrile said:
Excuse me Sir. In the class, when the teacher give us the answer of the problems, she use the △T for determinate the △U and W, so, the results was different:

△T = △H / m*Cp = 500 BTU/ (8lb) (0.25 BTU/lbmF) = 250 F

△U = m*Cv*△T = (8 lb) (0.18 BTU/lbmF) (250 F) = 360 BTU
The version of Cv that I remember seeing was Cv=0.21. With 0.18, this is correct.
Krokodrile said:
W = Q - △U = 500 BTU - 360 BTU = 140 BTU

Its this correct? why she use △T and not T2?
Why do you think she has not gotten W calculated correctly. It is correct.
Krokodrile said:
The final temperatura its correct in both cases.
Of course the final temperature is correct in both cases. There is only one final temperature.
Krokodrile said:
Thank you for read.
 

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