Would Photon Clocks be possible?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of constructing a photon clock, defined as a device with two perfectly parallel mirrors reflecting photons between them. Participants explore the implications of achieving 100% reflective mirrors and the operational mechanics of such a clock, including detection methods and practical considerations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Joe questions whether 100% reflective mirrors can be made in reality, assuming perfect parallelism.
  • One participant argues that even if the device could be constructed, it would be challenging to detect any "ticking" of the clock since detecting a photon would destroy it.
  • Another participant suggests that similar principles are applied at radio frequencies, indicating that complete reflectivity may not be necessary if energy can be added to maintain the wave.
  • A different viewpoint proposes that the device might be better termed a "light clock" and emphasizes its utility in thought experiments to illustrate time dilation and length contraction without mechanical distractions.
  • One participant compares the photon clock to a laser, noting that photons cannot sustain themselves without some form of rejuvenation.
  • Another idea is presented where a cluster of photons could be projected, with some being absorbed and others reflected, allowing for a form of measurement until the photons are depleted.
  • Joe expresses uncertainty about the necessity of 100% reflectivity, suggesting that even slight losses could lead to rapid escape of photons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the feasibility of creating a photon clock or the necessity of 100% reflective mirrors. Multiple competing views are presented regarding the operational mechanics and definitions of the device.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexities involved in building such a clock, including the need for energy input to maintain photon presence and the challenges of measuring without destroying the photons.

tinypositrons
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My question is as follows:
A photon clock (two 100% reflective mirrors exactly parallel and photons whizzing in between) actually possible. My question is made assuming we could get the mirrors exactly parallel. So really, I suppose my question is:
Are 100% reflective mirrors possible to make in reality?
Thanks all,
Joe.
 
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For the sake of argument, let's assume it's possible to construct such a device. However, I don't see how this device would work as a clock. How do you detect any "ticking" of the clock? A photon always gets absorbed as a whole. So, when you detect the photon, the "clock" is destroyed. By the way, there already are quite accurate atomic clocks.
 
This is done all the time at radio frequencies. You don't need 100%, just enough so that you can "top off" the wave by adding energy to it.
 
(It might be better to call this hypothetical device a "light clock" instead of a "photon clock".)

Whether it's practical to build or one or not is almost the point. We talk about them in our thought experiments because they are drop-dead simple with no distracting mechanical details; time dilation and length contraction are the only ways of affecting their reading.

As DennisN points out, in real experiments we use physically realizable clocks. These require an enormous amount of time and money and ingenuity to understand and control all the mechanical, electrical, and environmental conditions that can affect their operation. All of this effort, although essential to experimental design, gets in the way of simple explanations of the underlying theory.
 
tinypositrons said:
My question is as follows:
A photon clock (two 100% reflective mirrors exactly parallel and photons whizzing in between) actually possible. My question is made assuming we could get the mirrors exactly parallel. So really, I suppose my question is:
Are 100% reflective mirrors possible to make in reality?
Thanks all,
Joe.
Your description is very close to how a laser is built except that as others have pointed out, the photons will not just keep bouncing back and forth between the two mirrors on their own, you have to have some way of rejuvenating them.
 
Perhaps some scheme wherein a cluster of photons is originally projected. Each time one of the mirrors/detectors is encountered by them, some are absorbed/ measured, while others are reflected. Thus we get an attenuating regular measurement until they are gone? And of course more can always be sent out.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
This is done all the time at radio frequencies. You don't need 100%, just enough so that you can "top off" the wave by adding energy to it.

Surely you do need 100%, as otherwise, each time the photons were reflected some would escape, but as they go so fast, they would all escape extremely quickly? I may be wrong, but that's what I think.

Thanks,
Joe.
 

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